Soldato
Another blog post for anyone interested. Another road race and a fast 25m TT
http://twhatley.com/?p=155
http://twhatley.com/?p=155
Road Cycling
- Thread starter FrenchTart
- Start date
Soldato
Cost primarily. Wheelset is £950 or so with 25c tyres, which is cheaper than the +1400 I’ve seen for others. And that the rim is a blend of carbon and aluminium, so might be better for heat distro?
I’ve got some 2007/8 Zipp 404’s (with Alu rim) at the moment which are only 10 speed and are slowly wearing out. Ive got a lot of cycling booked in this year so now is an ideal time to get them (rather than later in the year). Its also my 30th soon so early present to myself.
Soldato
Fair enough, I just don't think they are actually good value. I have the older generation set that came with my bike, Cosmic Carbones. The newer one is slightly lighter with a shallower rim depth from what I can tell, but is still essentially an alloy rim with some carbon stuck on in an aerodynamic shape.
If you are after some carbon bling, many here can vouch for Chinese carbon rims purchased on eBay for a lot cheaper that have stood up to punishment. Alternatively, looking at something for a similar cost that is handbuilt and serviceable like Wheelsmith or Hunt. http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/powertap-c10at/aero-38-50-60
Concerns about carbon braking are not unreasonable but not really an issue until you hit the mountains (or perhaps the Lake Disrict). It still depends on your weight, braking technique and if it's raining.
Speak to the group before setting off. Don't set off and then try to work out and fit in with what they are doing. Ask the questions first then you know and won't screw up..... Just find out if they want people through and off or if you are taking spells on the front and if so, how long they usually leave you out there.
Just keep it super steady, when you come to the front don't surge as that's the worst and experienced guys will want to shoot you. Just keep it steady as possible, hold your line and don't kill yourself. Don't worry about slowing it if you are on the front, most people think they are slowing the group but they're actually surging hard to avoid that and end up pulling too much. It's not that people can't live with the surge it's just that it breaks the rhythm of the group. Fast pace comes from steady solid consistency, not surging and slowing even if the surges are rapid the overall outcome is usually slower and ends up people getting dropped or bailing because they are fed up with the nonsense.
If you speak to people and ask the questions you will get respect. And they will then know you are new to it and will take care of you. Win/win.
Soldato
......and if you really can't keep up with the pace, just drop off. Don't bother trying to hang around and take ages to get the front when it's your turn. If you're obviously trying and struggling, then just hang on the back and say. Most groups would be ok with this. Do a turn every now and then
Soldato
I mostly agree with this. However, if you're struggling and you sit on the back, we would ask you to stay there and not come through again. It interrupts the rhythm of the group if you have somebody sitting at the back and randomly coming through. Either work with the group or sit on the back.
It's not a big deal if you do have to sit on either. Nobody will mind, especially if you shout to each person as they come back to join the end of the group (just the first time around) what you're doing so they dont wait for you and have to close up a gap.
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Through and off is best. We did some 'Round and On' on a club ride last year and almost everybody had no idea what they were doing, not easing up when they reached the front and it ended up basically just being a flat out sprint as it got faster and faster!
Don't overlap wheels either
Also worth a look over your shoulder (lifesaver) before swinging out to let others come through, just like you would for a pothole or parked car.
Enjoying these
Don't overlap wheels either
Also worth a look over your shoulder (lifesaver) before swinging out to let others come through, just like you would for a pothole or parked car.
Enjoying these
Soldato
It's good to get clarification on how exactly they expect you to ride it though. Our chaingang does 20-30 seconds on the front before pulling off because it makes things smoother in our small groups of 5-6. So it's not strictly "through and off" or "chaingang".
That's just weird!
The more experienced groups will usually pull off into the wind so the direction changes 3-4 times on the loop. That's a good way to confuse people as well
True that, my understanding of Through & Off is 20,30 or 60 second turn on the front and then off, to the side specified (when safe to do so). When doing recon for the RR the last few weeks turns were in the region or 2-3 minutes which was quite hard work but if timed well you might have got some recovery before any tough sections
That's just weird!
The more experienced groups will usually pull off into the wind so the direction changes 3-4 times on the loop. That's a good way to confuse people as well
It did seem a bit odd at the time but definitely stops the pace slowing as you have to make it to the front of the bunch and in a 10-12 strong line that can be quite an effort
Nope, tell them to get it sorted or you'll go elsewhere.
If the group is doing spells just ask how long they tend to sit on front before they flick their elbow 27 times and glare back wondering why you haven't passed and relieved them of duty.
If you are in with clue'd up chaingang elites complete with 60mm wheels and aero bikes (and club ride race numbers?) you can even communicate mid ride and agree on shorter spells and longer spells for the hard men depending on the terrain and how the group is feeling.
When setting off pick a fattish blokes wheel to be on. You want a fattISH, not actual proper fat bloke. If he's fattish and on a S5 or a Venge Vias get on his wheel. He will be a superb wind break whilst being aero as Wiggins on his top end bicycle. If you go for someone fatter than fattish you run the risk of them coming to grinding halt at the 1% inclines and getting dropped whilst you gaze around them wondering if you can engage orbit exit and get back on to the vanishing bunch.
On the flip side, avoid the wheel of the skinny dweebz. Like me. Nobody wants to be on my wheel. It's as windy on my wheel as it is on the front and the next person who tells me "it's like taking two spells behind you" will receive a Contador suckah punch to the chops.
When you get to the closing 500m and you are on the front.... Unlucky mate. You are THE lead out now. Hopefully you are feeling frisky and you can lay down the watts and properly ruin the day for the blokes who live for silly sprinting. If you get to the end and nobody comes around you then you are basically Fabian, but a interclub hated version of Fabian because your super legs spoiled the fun.
After you finish you have to get as much air in your lungs as possible. When you stop to chat and analyse the chaingang outcome you have to come across fully fresh and easy. You can't be standing there gasping for breath like you actually put any effort into it. That would just be ridiculous. Cool and calm, then tell everyone you have to dash as you want to get another 2 hours tempo done before it gets dark.
If you are in with clue'd up chaingang elites complete with 60mm wheels and aero bikes (and club ride race numbers?) you can even communicate mid ride and agree on shorter spells and longer spells for the hard men depending on the terrain and how the group is feeling.
When setting off pick a fattish blokes wheel to be on. You want a fattISH, not actual proper fat bloke. If he's fattish and on a S5 or a Venge Vias get on his wheel. He will be a superb wind break whilst being aero as Wiggins on his top end bicycle. If you go for someone fatter than fattish you run the risk of them coming to grinding halt at the 1% inclines and getting dropped whilst you gaze around them wondering if you can engage orbit exit and get back on to the vanishing bunch.
On the flip side, avoid the wheel of the skinny dweebz. Like me. Nobody wants to be on my wheel. It's as windy on my wheel as it is on the front and the next person who tells me "it's like taking two spells behind you" will receive a Contador suckah punch to the chops.
When you get to the closing 500m and you are on the front.... Unlucky mate. You are THE lead out now. Hopefully you are feeling frisky and you can lay down the watts and properly ruin the day for the blokes who live for silly sprinting. If you get to the end and nobody comes around you then you are basically Fabian, but a interclub hated version of Fabian because your super legs spoiled the fun.
After you finish you have to get as much air in your lungs as possible. When you stop to chat and analyse the chaingang outcome you have to come across fully fresh and easy. You can't be standing there gasping for breath like you actually put any effort into it. That would just be ridiculous. Cool and calm, then tell everyone you have to dash as you want to get another 2 hours tempo done before it gets dark.
Please don't supply conflicting information. If you *need* them due to the old set wearing out then cost is a valid argument. If they're a 30th birthday present to yourself then cost shouldn't enter into it. As you're awesome and deserve them.
Oh I will, there's usually several new people along so quite a lot of the slow/newbie/3rd group is 'guided' by the experienced riders telling people when to pull off and when to sit on rather than pulling and being dropped. I'll know several of the guys out so know I'll be looked after, just hope that also means they don't expect me to do long turns!
Yup they're good for this, although people do still get dropped! Just hope that's not me!
I think that's what I'm most nervous about - knowing when swinging off just how much to ease up when dropping back without causing problems behind lol
Not unreasonable! Worth taking pictures so if they do it again you can send them examples of previous damage. You could even hint that should you reach out to Park and ask them to replace them due to Wiggles incompetence
Howling
Bravo.So, even though it didn't feel any easier being at the back of the Peloton on Sunday and with a choppy crosswind I can confirm, it is in fact quicker (to my own disbelief)...
I think that's what I'm most nervous about - knowing when swinging off just how much to ease up when dropping back without causing problems behind lol
One thing to be wary of is not getting back on the power or tucking back in quick enough, will just leave you a large gap to close but shouldn't effect anyone else.
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Soldato
I think that's what I'm most nervous about - knowing when swinging off just how much to ease up when dropping back without causing problems behind lol
When you're done on the front you flick your elbow to let the guy behind know that you're pulling off. Keep the power down (dont accelerate) and move to the side out of the way. Once you've moved to the side you can start to slow.
You'll probably be in 1 line so there wont be anyone behind you when you start to slow down. You want to slow gradually though - maybe 50-70% of the power you were doing on the front. If you completely ease off and freewheel you'll go straight out the back and never catch the group again.
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Soldato
Amazing read/write-up, really amusing! Know we kept you around for a reason, comedy interludes
Noted. Really something I'll need to work on as most of the group rides I've been on recently I've been quite lazy. Easy non-tempo pace = I let a gap open for minor reasons (like dodgy bits of road) and enjoy closing it. Won't be the case later as it's not a route I'll know every pot hole and bump in the road...
Great advice, I'd kinda assumed it was 2 lines but with 3 groups of riders (meaning probably less than 10 in each group) it would be silly, 1 line (like a TTT!) will make more sense & easier to understand (regularly rode a 3up last year with friends).
I'm half hoping my PWM will give me a little advantage, looking at the Strava avg data from previous weeks then a 250W average seems fairy good and some guys not dropped with 220/230W averages. Should mean I'm hitting the front at around no more than maybe ~300W and holding ~280W, which I know I can do! We'll see!
Inb4 - Errant disc brake in local chain-gang claims 5 lives.
Back is feeling loads better as todays gone on, fingers crossed I don't make it any worse as that'll annoy me on the weekend!
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Thing is, in a race at least, whilst you might be able to sit equally comfortably at similar (or perhaps more) power than those at the front depending on exactly where you end up in the bunch and how it goes you can end up with a similar average power but more taxing notional power.
For a chain gang though you'll be fine and if need be take less frequent turns and just enjoy holding on don't spend too long staring at your Elemnt though, the wheel in front is more important.
Had my hands sandwiched between two other riders bars at one point on Sunday and the amount of times I'd 'braced for impact' with the wheel in front to see it pull away again at the last inch was plentiful
For a chain gang though you'll be fine and if need be take less frequent turns and just enjoy holding on
don't spend too long staring at your Elemnt though, the wheel in front is more important.Had my hands sandwiched between two other riders bars at one point on Sunday and the amount of times I'd 'braced for impact' with the wheel in front to see it pull away again at the last inch was plentiful
Haha don't tell me that! I'm nervous around others I don't know as most of the group riding I've done with strangers has been Sportives or newbie social rides. If I know/trust the rider then I'm quite happy to be used as a leaning/observation post and the occasional veer/close call!the amount of times I'd 'braced for impact' with the wheel in front to see it pull away again at the last inch was plentiful
Part of the 'issue' I find is I'm quite good at holding speed with changes of gradient, so certainly with newbies around I can overlap a wheel very quickly and far too easily. On saturday (as I knew the route so well) I took to dropping back just before the foot of climbs and then closing up once they'd dropped speed/settled down. Saw so many twitching wheels when they increased power so I stayed away! I guess I enjoy surging when I'm feeling strong!