Rosberg retires with immediate effect
- Thread starter .Griff.
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Caporegime
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Is that a joke? Despite not having the speed and before 2009 not being a top driver imo, he constantly crashes due to cutting in on people. After however ridiculously long he's in F1 he was still failing to finish races this year because he cuts in on people alongside him. Honestly he's failed to learn a basic and fundamental sporting lesson all the while every single year calling out other drivers for failing to learn, calling them immature and inexperienced without a hint of irony.
Even then you have to really factor in that, Hamilton is the guy Massa sees somewhat as stealing his title, they aren't exactly friends when on the track with Massa hitting Hamilton multiple times in his time honoured turning in with a driver on the inside method. If Mercedes are less dominant next year actually finishing races will be important in the constructors which is Massa's biggest problem.
Having a quick look, 2014 Bottas had 6 podiums 32 more points and retired only once. Massa retired 3 times and was classified 12th after the contact with Perez in Canada. Perez largely gets the blame but Massa as usual managed to entirely fail to predict that another car might not do exactly as he wanted, was needlessly close and I think is at least partially to blame for that. I still think that the crash into Kimi in Silverstone was easily avoidable, had he not locked up and lost control he had over half the track to steer around him while other cars ahead and behind managed to avoid Kimi. German GP, flipped his own car by turning into Magnussen... blamed Magnussen, classic Massa frankly. Embarrassing he's still doing that and did it to Alonso this season. Australia is the only one I believe he's blameless for. Overall they were more than 32 points off 2nd in the constructors, but had he got 32 points more RBR would likely have got a similar amount less and maybe he was the difference between Williams getting 2nd and 3rd.
2015, Bottas beat him again but much closer, however he had several big points losses like Kimi hitting him in Russia which would have added 12-15 points and he also couldn't start the first race which wasn't down to him. He still retired from less races than Massa, though that year it was mostly not down to Massa.
2016, Bottas had 85 vs 53 points for Massa, again less retirements, less collisions, better overall speed and simply completely outdriven over the season by his team mate.
So to sum up, him and Hamilton aren't friends on the track, Massa spent an entire career failing to learn lessons while being a hypocrite about other drivers experience, he constantly brings home less points than he should due to multiple collisions a year that are almost all his fault.
In a no.2 or potential future winning driver in a team like Merc you want reliability, lack of causing trouble, sensible decisions being made in the first corner of the race and ability to rack up the points in a constructors fight. Massa is a failure in every category. For someone who constantly gets into turn 1 issues due to having zero concept of allowing room for other drivers... for a team starting 1-2 and turn 1 being the biggest danger of the season he might be the single worst driver Mercedes could ever sign.
Bottas is everything Massa isn't, he doesn't have obvious flaws in his driving that he's failed to improve on. Most of his retirements are NOT his fault, his races finished percentage is miles above Massa over the last three seasons, he doesn't have an issue with Hamilton(though he didn't exactly help Hamilton with his one stupid move this year with the dive bomb in Bahrain). Bottas is the age, cost(cheap), reliable driver you want as a no.2, though being in a team as stupid as Williams is, it's hard to know if he has title potential or just a solid no.2 driver to bring in the points and finishes to win a constructors title.
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The only thing you get with Massa is a guaranteed number 2 
(not necessarily ever classified as 2nd though 
)
I agree, Massa would be a ridiculous option.
(not necessarily ever classified as 2nd though )I agree, Massa would be a ridiculous option.
Soldato
I don't think things will shake up as much as people are expecting. Car wise they will of course have more downforce, but in the most basic sense it's just bigger wings and the under floor and diffuser. The bodywork on top is unlikely to change much as they'll still want to package everything as tightly as they can and they've honed those already over 3 seasons.
Some teams might go extreme and go for an ultra-low setup, trying to keep a lower centre of gravity by spreading out some components under the engine cover, which shouldn't add any extra drag and may indeed lessen it, but it's complicated by the suspension and wheels (and much more than before of course) and they have had plenty of space to do that with the current regulations too and chose to channel around and under the sidepods instead.
Of course Red Bull are always good with aero, but Newey is much less involved now than he used, and frankly Mercedes have hired such a vast array of talent of their own now that they're plenty capable, and perhaps more so, of out-developing anyone.
Engine wise it will be interesting to see if anyone makes great leaps without the token system, but it's hard to imagine anyone getting near Mercedes. With Mercedes its not just the power that gives them the edge (Ferrari aren't far away in that regard) but the degree of control they have over them regarding maps and presumably still fuel and driveability still seems far beyond. That's not going to change an awful lot next year, so while Renault (especially now with with the works team) and Honda might get closer on the numbers front, they are all likely to still lag behind in the software.
There is more enough scope for the others to catch and pass Mercedes, but it's more likely they'll still have an edge.
Soldato
One, nice attempt at baiting.
Two, he's got a contract with McLaren so how exactly is he available?
Its probably quite a pointless contract though. He's just an ambassador next year and McLaren have an option to bring him back as a driver in 2018. Which seems less and less likely judging by how he was at his last race... So I'd say he was an option to Mercedes.
Caporegime
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Reality is every driver has their price. Offer RBR 50mil to release Verstappen and they would. As much as Verstappen could be a 5 time world champion in the future, he could also leave RBR at the end of his current contract anyway and if RBR have a car good enough to win then other drivers are also capable if not as good as Verstappen.
Merc have Ferrari level cash, even more in terms of actual income from FIA as winning multiple titles gets you major cash. So spending to secure a top driver for the future isn't a bad investment. However again even if they spent 50mil getting Verstappen, he could then leave Merc after maybe 5 years(I'd expect a long contract if they were paying that much).
But for me ALonso, JB are very short term thinking and buying out peoples contracts for a year or two at most is just frankly not going to happen.
Alonso and JB may have cheap clauses to release them for cheap but ultimately why upset Hamilton who will drive longer than both by 3-4 years I'd think, when they'll have 1-2 years max. Merc should focus on the future, a solid no.2 like Bottas, or a junior who might be great in a top car. Perez for me shows more promise than Bottas, more great drives and some great overtakes over the years. Cheap, easy to get as doing a deal on engines to secure him would be easy and giving them a cheap second driver would also be possible.
Merc have Ferrari level cash, even more in terms of actual income from FIA as winning multiple titles gets you major cash. So spending to secure a top driver for the future isn't a bad investment. However again even if they spent 50mil getting Verstappen, he could then leave Merc after maybe 5 years(I'd expect a long contract if they were paying that much).
But for me ALonso, JB are very short term thinking and buying out peoples contracts for a year or two at most is just frankly not going to happen.
Alonso and JB may have cheap clauses to release them for cheap but ultimately why upset Hamilton who will drive longer than both by 3-4 years I'd think, when they'll have 1-2 years max. Merc should focus on the future, a solid no.2 like Bottas, or a junior who might be great in a top car. Perez for me shows more promise than Bottas, more great drives and some great overtakes over the years. Cheap, easy to get as doing a deal on engines to secure him would be easy and giving them a cheap second driver would also be possible.
Quite, buying him out of that is not going to be anywhere near as expensive as an active driver.
Still don't think he will want to do it though. Would not mind if he did though!
Soldato
Isn't JB Mclarens reserve driver for 2017, meaning he will be eligable to take part (Super License).
Andi.
PS I still like the idea of Rossi, can you imagine the off circuit competition between him and Lewis for star attraction.
Andi.
PS I still like the idea of Rossi, can you imagine the off circuit competition between him and Lewis for star attraction.
Soldato
As others have said, I think there are two options:
A.) Pinch Bottas, and put Wehrlein in at Williams
B.) Put Wehrlein in on a 1 year contract at Mercedes
Problem is with A.) lots of negotiations with Williams and they mightn't particularly want Wehrlein. Also, Bottas will want more than a 1 year contract, and Mercedes will probably want to go shopping again at the end of next year when they have more options.
Problem with B.) is Wehrlein will have to drive out of his skin in order to remotely have a chance of staying on, Mercedes will probably still want to survey the driver market at the end of next year, and if they boot Wehrlein at the end of next year - his career in F1 is most likely finished.
This is of course assuming Mercedes still have a top car at the end of next year given the regulation changes, otherwise this all turns on it's head again.
A.) Pinch Bottas, and put Wehrlein in at Williams
B.) Put Wehrlein in on a 1 year contract at Mercedes
Problem is with A.) lots of negotiations with Williams and they mightn't particularly want Wehrlein. Also, Bottas will want more than a 1 year contract, and Mercedes will probably want to go shopping again at the end of next year when they have more options.
Problem with B.) is Wehrlein will have to drive out of his skin in order to remotely have a chance of staying on, Mercedes will probably still want to survey the driver market at the end of next year, and if they boot Wehrlein at the end of next year - his career in F1 is most likely finished.
This is of course assuming Mercedes still have a top car at the end of next year given the regulation changes, otherwise this all turns on it's head again.
I don't like his McLaren contract. He made it out to be a really good deal back when it happened but McLaren basically made him their bitch. (Albeit a probably well paid bitch but does he need the money??) Now Ron's gone though, will the management maybe change it? He just sounds like he wants to retire fully now.
Caporegime
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I'd say remember that a lot of drivers in cars like Manors or Sauber(when it's this bad) don't make it in F1 anyway. When they aren't really given the chance to shine they don't often stick around very long. Now Manor have been improved and this season might have been lucky for Ocon and Wehrlein as their performances this year were more noticeable than if they'd done the same in last years car where the same level of driving would have meant being say 2.2laps down instead of 2.5 laps behind the leader.
But ultimately if Wehrlein has what it takes to be in F1 then being in the Merc isn't a problem. He'll either be terrible, in which case he wasn't going to make it and got one high exposure year he can tell stories of to hotties in bars for years. He could be great and even beat Hamilton a couple of times probably securing a place in the team for another couple of years, he could be decent but nothing special and like lets say Kovalainen get a drive for a mid-lower table team after a year or two at Merc.
I can't see that driving for Merc is a bad thing because if you weren't going to make it, a year with a top team with the attention and high profile nature of it is just going to make your life better and get you more money than if you never did it.
Soldato
He has repeatedly put a crap car into the top 10
I think you do one of the fastest drivers on the track a disservice by saying he isn't at the top his game anymore. He would be top of the game if he were to be driving the top car. It's that simple.He has repeatedly put a crap car into the top 10
I just can't help thinking that if he goes to Mercedes the car will instantly be terrible next year regardless...
Although we could say third time lucky? Lol
Soldato
Deleted member 651465
D
Deleted member 651465
There is one option no one has mentioned..... would create fireworks but it would allow Merc a clear number 2 and satisfy the German angle....
Sutil trolololololol
Sutil trolololololol
Soldato
Soldato
Heidfeld much better option... steadily gathering those points up
Sorry, I posted both as possible replacements in this thread days ago.
Man of Honour
Heidfeld much better option... steadily gathering those points up
Some say he is still driving around in 5th place this very moment.