Ross Brawn back to Ferrari?
- Thread starter Mr Men
- Start date
Associate
aw well.
LOL. Yeah. Or somebody who is completely bonkers!!!
When MSc arrived back 3 years ago, he was talking about titles and winning races. This was certainly the correct way to think, as he was used to winning races and titles, as a matter of course. Why would he think in any other way?
3 years later, he realised that he just doesnt have the "skillz" any more. In his first career, MSc was never beaten by his team-mate, unless he had a broken leg. Over the last 3 years, he was beaten by Rosberg, who is not highly rated, each and every year.
In his first career, I am pretty sure that he would've at least doubled or tripled Rosberg's points total.
MSc and his diminishing skillz are to blame, not Merc.
One thing I have noticed this year, is that the OCUK members are blaming the car/team a lot. I've noticed this with Hamilton and McLaren and I'm now seeing this with Merc and MSc. Some people need to accept that not every driver is the best.
McLaren give Hamilton, arguably the fastest car (averaged across the season) and fans are blaming McLaren, when Hamilton got beaten by Kimi (who was in a dog of a car).
Anyway, as you were gents.
Associate
^lol
Yeah. Because Hamilton caused those mechanical failures and pit-stop errors all by himself, didn't he?
Soldato
Could someone please calculate the amount of points Hamilton would have got had he finished in the same place he was in during mechanical failures...
kd
Associate
3 retirements from 1st position during a race off the top of my head. That's arguably 75 pts just from that.
he actually believes it....
in a lot of races merc did an extra stop over every other team because msc and rosberg are tyre killers.
it was nothing to do wtih the car and they took the coanda exhaust off again because rosberg and msc didnt know how to use it.!
no fault of the car
Soldato
This article covered most of the mechanical problems and crashes that were not his fault. Including the two that were missed (Spa* and Brazil) Hamilton has lost 130-140 points through no fault of his own.
Alonso and vettel also lost points through mechanical issues and crashes that werent their fault as well, but i havent calculated them. I'm guessing that it would have been a very good three way fight for the championship if all the mechanical issues and crashes didnt happen but i dont know who would have won
*he wouldnt have got many points at spa, but he might have got a couple
Yeah. Because Hamilton caused those mechanical failures and pit-stop errors all by himself, didn't he?
He caused enough of his own problems as well dont forget
Just because he was good enough in that phase of that race to be leading the race at that point, doesnt automatically mean he would definitely have won even if the mechanics had been good
The conditions are what caused LH's retirement in Brazil, but I still strongly believe that he should have the experience to see the potential for that accident to happen on that corner in those (track) conditions. After all he nearly spun himself in exactly the same spot a few laps earlier , without even considering those that LH would have seen before the accident doing exactly the same thing as Hulkenburg earlier in the race.
He is a brilliant driver, undoubtedly, but I still think he doesnt learn from his mistakes as quickly as he should do.
Last edited:
you missed the vettel V alonso V hamilton fight to get into the best car in f1.
apparently hamilton one so he is set to break all of schumachers records now he is in the best car with the best team
although it would make sense to big up the mercedes team and to say the drivers failed so the same bs reasoning can be used again if you're anti hamilton
You have to deduct points from Hamilton and MSc.
Alonso also had DNFs. As did Vettel.
All the top drivers, except for Kimi lost good points from retirements. As far as I'm concerned it all evens itself out, across a full season. And a top driver, will still put up a decent points haul, even with DNFs.
For an example of this, check out MSc's points totals, in 97,98 and 99. He had a Ferrari which was unreliable and breaking down, but he still did a fantastic job and beat his team-mate (excluding the time when he had a broken leg).
A good driver will always work with what he has. Kimi and Alonso showed that, this year. And in slower cars beat both the McLaren drivers.
Unfortunately in 2009-2012, MSc just wasnt very good (by the standards he set in his first career). It could be that Rosberg may be the best driver in F1, meaning that MSc wasn't actually that bad. In 2013, this shall become clearer, as we see how Rosberg compares against Hamilton. This will also make MSc's performance better to judge. My gut feeling though, is that Rosberg isn't particularly great and MSc was worse (over the 3 year period).
Only time will tell.
Yeah. Because Hamilton caused those mechanical failures and pit-stop errors all by himself, didn't he?
Pit stop errors dont drop you from 25 pts to 0 pts. A top driver will still recover from that and if he has the fastest car (which McLaren had many times this year - they scored front row grid positions in virtually every race this year), he can still go on to win the race.
Alonso and Vettel both had DNFs this year, which lost them points as well. Hamilton is not alone in this and does not deserve to be given special dispensation.
Alonso or Kimi would've killed to have been in a McLaren this year. Lest we forget, earlier in the year, the Ferrari was struggling to qualify in the top 10, while Mclaren was getting on the front row in almost every race this year.
Think about it - Hamilton got beaten by Kimi, in a Lotus!!! Probably the 4th fastest car in F1, with a driver who hadn't driven an F1 car for 2-3 years. It sounds almost unbelievable, but that's what actually happened.
For context, the drivers ordered by average points per race finish. No consideration made for why they didn't finish, just purely the average they scored when they made it to the end.
Supports my case that even without the retirements I think Hamilton would have struggled to beat Alonso and Vettel.
Code:
Driver Points Finishes PPRF
Sebastian Vettel 281 18 16
Fernando Alonso 278 18 15
Lewis Hamilton 190 14 14
Jenson Button 188 16 12
Mark Webber 179 17 11
Kimi Räikkönen 207 20 10
Romain Grosjean 96 12 8
Felipe Massa 122 17 7
Nico Rosberg 93 17 5
Sergio Pérez 66 14 5
Michael Schumacher 49 12 4
Kamui Kobayashi 60 15 4
Nico Hülkenberg 63 17 4
Pastor Maldonado 45 13 3
Paul di Resta 46 18 3
Bruno Senna 31 15 2
Jean-Éric Vergne 16 16 1
Daniel Ricciardo 10 19 1
Vitaly Petrov 0 17 0
Timo Glock 0 18 0
Charles Pic 0 15 0
Heikki Kovalainen 0 19 0
Jérôme d'Ambrosio 0 1 0
Narain Karthikeyan 0 12 0
Pedro de la Rosa 0 15 0Supports my case that even without the retirements I think Hamilton would have struggled to beat Alonso and Vettel.
Last edited:
someone did a "without misfortune" post on autosport
http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=178784
Alternative standings (actual standings):
Hamilton 342pts (190), Vettel 318pts (281), Alonso 250pts (278), Webber 226pts (179), Button 197pts (188), Räikkönen 150pts (207), Schumacher 70pts (49)
I suspect its hamilton biased but he lists his changes on a race by race basis
http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=178784
Alternative standings (actual standings):
Hamilton 342pts (190), Vettel 318pts (281), Alonso 250pts (278), Webber 226pts (179), Button 197pts (188), Räikkönen 150pts (207), Schumacher 70pts (49)
I suspect its hamilton biased but he lists his changes on a race by race basis