Rover K Series HGF - What actually causes it?

-westy- · 14 Mar 2006 at 16:19

Simon said:
The engine is a fantastic design overall as it has won many awards for.

The problem most the time is not the headgasket but the liners moving as mentioned. The liners at high revs (especially on the 1.8 with its poor Rod/stroke ratio) have a habit of wanting to twist, the only think stopping them is the head. On a cold engine the liners have not expanded and so do not grip the block enough, the liner wants to twist, the head stops it and instead the liner drops. This drops the liner from the headgasket fire ring and you get the headgasket gone symptons but it's not actually the headgasket that's gone. This is a problem on the engines as they are not overengineered lumps of metal but finely tuned to minimise weight, hence why the engine is so light and popular with Kit cars.

Also any coolant leak soon fecks them up. On race cars they never have problems as they are well maintained same with enthuasts cars, the elises rarely have issues. The complete bolt through engine design is indeed race car technology and Honda copied it for the F20C and K20.

So you could replace the liners with stronger ones?

Simon · 14 Mar 2006 at 16:23

-westy- said:
So you could replace the liners with stronger ones?

They are not very well supported in the block TBH. But thats the usual reason for pressurising the coolant rather than the HG. Also wrong coolant mix is also a factor, the scaling up affect the cooling of the liners again causing problems

I haven't looked into K series tuning at all for obvious reasons. My solid cast iron closed deck block, trilaminate stainless steel headgasket and ARP head studs probably make my engine able to run with no water

-westy- · 14 Mar 2006 at 16:23

merlin said:
WTF?

Untill anyone comes along and PROVES that the K-Series DOESN'T have a serious HG failure issue - there's nothing to be said other than to just laugh at what a complete and utter POS it is.

Let's say Clio's had a problem with HG failure - everyone would say - Ah yes the Clio that needs a HG replacement from the factory. Now if it was proven that the Clio lost it's HG due to the driver looking at it a bit funny - that would change nothing. The Clio would still have a HG problem.

Jesus, what is it with blinkered views. Bottom line - it has a problem. End of.

I'm seeing it from both sides here - Sure, its a great engine, its won awards, its lightweigh etc, however, I think that if the engine is maintained well and precautions are taken, then it shouldn't be an issue. A coolant level sensor is one of the things i'm looking into

Simon · 14 Mar 2006 at 16:25

agw_01 said:
Good post Simon!

Now, let's see what the 'OMGZ ROVER ARE CRAP' squad have to say about that. Like I've been saying for ages... if you don't know about something, who are you to bad mouth it?

Still is crap though to be honest.

I just don't like my T series being tarnished with the K series rep

agw_01 · 14 Mar 2006 at 16:26

merlin said:
Jesus, what is it with blinkered views. Bottom line - it has a problem. End of.

I'll fully admit that the K has a HG problem. My point is that it's not as big as everyone makes out.

Not ALL K's end up with HGF.

Simon said:
I just don't like my T series being tarnished with the K series rep

I know how you feel

Simon · 14 Mar 2006 at 16:27

-westy- said:
I'm seeing it from both sides here - Sure, its a great engine, its won awards, its lightweigh etc, however, I think that if the engine is maintained well and precautions are taken, then it shouldn't be an issue. A coolant level sensor is one of the things i'm looking into

Interestingly Rover fitted this onto the later cars to try and stop people driving about with low coolant and then blaming the HG. The inlet manifold is water cooled (to aid economy/emissions, this used to leak and either run out of coolant so HG went or would leak and people would think it was the HG.

D4VE · 14 Mar 2006 at 16:28

And for the inlet manifold they used their favourite material again - plastic!

Simon · 14 Mar 2006 at 16:30

D4VE said:
And for the inlet manifold they used their favourite material again - plastic!

Again lightweight but suffered with warping on ragged engines.

Rover really should have err'd on the side of caution a bit more when designing the engine

penski · 14 Mar 2006 at 16:56

D4VE said:
And for the inlet manifold they used their favourite material again - plastic!

The Duratec has a plastic inlet manifold, non?

*n

ShakenNstirred · 14 Mar 2006 at 17:28

found this
http://www.mgfcar.de/hgf/
read News 2006, January 31
"Land Rover have redesigned the K series 1.8 head gasket and upgraded the lower rail that the head bolts screw into.

The head gasket has lost it's elastomeric beads and now has a laminated type of construction and the lower rail is beefed up - it must have an effect upon the clamping load. Head torque figures remain unchanged."
New headgasket LVB500190 approx €44 + VAT (~£29+VAT)
New oil ladder LCN000140L approx €52 + VAT (~£34+VAT)

R220 · 14 Mar 2006 at 18:09

All my cars have done over 100k with no problems, but my latest edition containing the 1.6 K series has only done 79k and the HG is leaking

Its not a problem with the K series? pah!!

Whats the 2.0 block in the coupe (T/M series?) ? that one was good!!! took all my abuse and clocked over 100k on its original gasket.

[TW]Fox · 14 Mar 2006 at 18:10

agw_01 said:
I'll fully admit that the K has a HG problem. My point is that it's not as big as everyone makes out.

Not ALL K's end up with HGF.

Ok show me one K Series Rover owner on this forum who has a car which has never suffered HG faliure

PMKeates · 14 Mar 2006 at 18:17

[TW]Fox said:
Ok show me one K Series Rover owner on this forum who has a car which has never suffered HG faliure

My old 214 is still going after ~95,000 miles on the original gasket without any sign of failure. Full Rover service history and owned by a driving enthusiast, admittedly.

.SJ · 14 Mar 2006 at 18:25

Jez · 14 Mar 2006 at 18:28

Whilst mine didnt, i only had it up until about 38-40k, so by now its bound to have gone

My dad has had 2 rover 1.4 based cars, and both have suffered HGF at 80-90k, 2 of my friends also have K-series based cars and both of them have had to do it too, one of them at only 55k miles.

Really quite poor that they need this much attention to keep running. The 1.8k is however, when running, a rather nice drive in the 218

smokey · 14 Mar 2006 at 18:34

[TW]Fox said:
Ok show me one K Series Rover owner on this forum who has a car which has never suffered HG faliure

My 214Sei was a fantastic k series engine with 86k on its original gasket

ShakenNstirred · 14 Mar 2006 at 18:43

my 214sli(92 reg) had 64k on it when i got it and i sold it with 98k(still on the original gasket).
i gave it a lot of stick(not from cold though) and it was fine

M0T · 14 Mar 2006 at 18:47

I had a 1991 214 that got HGF at 40,000. I had the car from 82,000 to 89,000

And A VVC Coupe that got it at 106,000, although the gasket was replaced at 52,000 when the exhaust camshaft was changed.

<(Multi)> · 14 Mar 2006 at 18:48

[TW]Fox said:
Ok show me one K Series Rover owner on this forum who has a car which has never suffered HG faliure

I've got a 1.4 K series at 62k, never had a HG replaced.

Lad down the road has a 1.8 K series. First HG went at approx 25k, second went at approx 27k and third just went at 30k.

I tend to think HG failures are only an issue with the larger K series engines.

Gaijin · 14 Mar 2006 at 18:49

[TW]Fox said:
So why have we had like 5 'oh my god my head gasket went' threads in a week on a forum like this which isn't even a manufacturer specific problem?

Where are the 'My Honda Civic head gasket went' threads?

Touches every piece of wood in the house