Royal Mail rant incoming...

Smok3y said:
Well I presume it's your parcel? Why are you saying it's the posties fault? You say you have GPS proof you weren't there to recieve it? Who says no one was in at address it was delivered to? Maybe you Mrs had it? Maybe one of your kids had it? It's your word against their word. Who says you aren't lying? What's to say you looked at the tracking, saw the postie had signed for it and maybe you thought "I know i'll pull a fast one and say it was never delivered and the postie signed for it themsleves and decided to keep it"? Then you get free whatever and then you expect the seller to reimburse you. You think this situation never happens? Maybe no one else does this? How about the tables turned on you and you prove you don't have it. You think Joe Public is all honest and innocent?
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That's why it's a signed for service, so Royal Mail can protect themselves from situations like this. Royal Mail made the decision to remove that protection (without putting an alternative in place like every other delivery company) so Royal Mail need to bear the responsibility for that.

I'll ask again, what is the point in paying for a signed service with compensation if it never gets signed and there is no compensation?
 
I've had so many deliveries going wrong..
Sometimes they deliver to the wrong flat, sometimes to the building in front of me and sometimes I have no idea as it gets lost.

Even if they use GPS 24/7, it will show that they were near or on my building, but doesn't mean they delivered to the right place.

And that is one of the reasons why now I have a camera on my front door with motion detection.
 
Haggisman said:
That's why it's a signed for service, so Royal Mail can protect themselves from situations like this. Royal Mail made the decision to remove that protection (without putting an alternative in place like every other delivery company) so Royal Mail need to bear the responsibility for that.

I'll ask again, what is the point in paying for a signed service with compensation if it never gets signed and there is no compensation?
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Exactly.

I don't know what else that user wants. It's really rather simple. Royal mail say they delivered by hand to a person that was in another town. They have GPS to prove this, I have gps to prove other wise.

I also have GPS to show my partner wasn't present as her phone does the same thing as mine with Google recording your every movement, and my 2 lodgers were also both out working if my memory serves me right.

It's a really weird thing that some ocukers do. Me and the op know what processes we took, and a month later, you have users saying "why didn't you ask those you live with instead of fanning about and going on holiday" erm.. We did, this happened all a month ago. This is just a thread to rant and see if anything we can do next.

Smok3y said:
You think Joe Public is all honest and innocent?
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No, hence why royal mail offer a signed for service, which was agreed and paid for, and we never got and are now in this mess as a result. It's really so simple.

Smok3y said:
you expect the seller to reimburse you
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Your words not mine. Think you'll find I've never even suggested this as an option. Quite the opposite. Have been super patient (though thanks to the item being a treat upgrade rather than requirement, its not been a rush).

Some users on here really need to think before they type pure nonsense.
 
Sounds like the only option left is small claims with all the evidence of you and your partner not at home and if possible proof your lodgers had been at work. Puts the onus on royal fail to prove exactly whom the delivered it to as no one was present to sign for anything and going by the information sure they sign for it but have to actually give it to someone first. As has been said previously its not a massively expensive item so they screwed up and should be owning it but quite clearly think you will just give up.
 
That GPS information would have been really handy week 1 when you should have been arguing your case with the nearest sorting office, where your postie works. Also this information would have allowed the OP to put more pressure on Royal Mail when he raised the official complaint.

this was from RM reply to OP remember:
Unfortunately, without confirmation from the relevant Delivery Office that this item had been misdelivered or left in an unsecure location, there is no payment I could offer.
 
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Sure. You're probably right, but back then, it didn't occur to us, nor was it my belief that they'd refuse the case. I perhaps ignorantly thought it was going to be rather easy to argue this, especially as at the time, the signature was clearly not ours, I had assumed it went to another house so no need of anything more our end. It was only then that they say the signature is the posties, and then how things progressed.

None the less, I am sure they will refuse GPS proof as proof I wasnt there, but use their GPS as proof it was delivered and to me.

Surely it cna still be used?

When I'm back ill be going in.
 
I would just like to highlight that this situation has occurred forever, CV ignored. It's very easy for someone to turn round and say, "not my signature", even if it was. It's amazing how RM fail to adapt, whilst other companies use photos now, and should keep doing so since it's become socially acceptable.

It's unfortunate that it's been this long, i know you Apex can't do much as you're still not home. The postie's memory will be dwindling of this package as each day goes by. They deliver that much stuff.

Best for OP to be prepping evidence etc now. Forwarding that onto Apex for the initial RM depot visit with the office manager, and pushing hard with it.
 
The_Arbiter said:
I would just like to highlight that this situation has occurred forever, CV ignored. It's very easy for someone to turn round and say, "not my signature", even if it was. It's amazing how RM fail to adapt, whilst other companies use photos now, and should keep doing so since it's become socially acceptable.

It's unfortunate that it's been this long, i know you Apex can't do much as you're still not home. The postie's memory will be dwindling of this package as each day goes by. They deliver that much stuff.

Best for OP to be prepping evidence etc now. Forwarding that onto Apex for the initial RM depot visit with the office manager, and pushing hard with it.
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The photos are often completely useless. I had a delivery from Next today and the photo on the delivery email shows a closed, plain, white door and not even the number. Not sure what that proves. Even Next’s email said they would photograph an open door.

By contrast an Amazon delivery I had today gave me a one time password (6 numbers) I had to give the driver before I could have the parcel.
 
My parcel arrived yesterday (oneplus phone). I recieved the email, clicked the link and chose to have it delivered to my local post office.

Guess where it ended up? Launched over the garden fence, sat in the middle of the garden. This wasn't even recorded, so good job nobody nicked it.
 
Stu999 said:
The photos are often completely useless. I had a delivery from Next today and the photo on the delivery email shows a closed, plain, white door and not even the number. Not sure what that proves. Even Next’s email said they would photograph an open door.

By contrast an Amazon delivery I had today gave me a one time password (6 numbers) I had to give the driver before I could have the parcel.
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My amazon deliveries usually is the opposite, my last 3 deliveries:
1 - I was tracking a delivery and mine was the next stop... saw the driver downstairs and before even come up he market left in the letterbox, he came upstairs knocked the door, put the parcel on the floor and left even before I opened the door. (the parcel was quite big to fit in a letterbox)

2 - Got a message saying that my parcel was handed to a resident, but no one was home.

3 - asked to deliver to an Amazon locker, so I could collect instead of having one more parcel being left outside.
 
Stu999 said:
The photos are often completely useless. I had a delivery from Next today and the photo on the delivery email shows a closed, plain, white door and not even the number. Not sure what that proves. Even Next’s email said they would photograph an open door.

By contrast an Amazon delivery I had today gave me a one time password (6 numbers) I had to give the driver before I could have the parcel.
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A good whole photo would obviously be better than one of a door mat. That Amazon idea should be standard for every delivery that's a registered one, and there's no reason every courier can't implement that within a reasonable amount of time. Sure it takes extra time to deliver, but that should make up for the potential loss of further items. It also protects the courier person, and the company's rep. You could even collect your parcel from the driver at any point if you had the code. It's a decent idea, saves the photo and signing for anything.
 
For anyone still interested, Apex is back off holiday now and have asked if he can approach the depot with his GPS data. As RM are using this as proof of delivery, i'd hope his own GPS data showing him in another town at time of delivery might have some weight. I've suggested this is done by letter as then the reply will help with small claims if needed.

I've also been getting some advice elsewhere where they deal with these sort of disputes a lot, they've advised to request all records of the investigation from RM or if they won't supply them, at least request they are retained. This is prior to a letter of intent leading into small claims proceedings if it goes that way.
 
subbytna said:
Not unless you want sued for £100k these days.....:eek:
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To be fair the issue wasnt the ring doorbell, more the camera he fitted which covered her back garden and he lied about it.

Also the guy claimed two cameras were dummies which turned out to be real and had video and audio of her garden, gate and parking spaces.

the ring doorbell didnt appear to be an issue at all.
 
Greebo said:
To be fair the issue wasnt the ring doorbell, more the camera he fitted which covered her back garden and he lied about it.

Also the guy claimed two cameras were dummies which turned out to be real and had video and audio of her garden, gate and parking spaces.

the ring doorbell didnt appear to be an issue at all.
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The audio recording from the Ring Doorbell was an issue determined against the Defendant.

In relation to the audio personal data collected by the Shed Camera, Driveway Camera and Ring Doorbell, I remind myself of the third principle, that personal data “shall be adequate, relevant and limited to what is necessary in relation to the purposes for which they are processed”. This is the data minimisation principle. I am satisfied that the extent of range to which these devices can capture audio is well beyond the range of video that they capture, and in my view cannot be said to be reasonable for the purpose for which the devices are used by the Defendant, since the legitimate aim for which they are said to be used, namely crime prevention, could surely be achieved by something less. A great deal of the purpose could be achieved without audio at all, as is the case with the bulk of CCTV systems in use in public places in this country, or by a microphone that only picks up sound within a small diameter of the device. That finding means that I am satisfied that the processing of such audio data by the Defendant as data controller is not lawful.
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We have an iffy postie, thankfully her round has changed so she only "covers" now
No evidence she has knicked anything, but we repeatedly kept getting mail for other addresses nearby, same number wrong street, or our street diff number etc

I collect the special royal mint coins which they send tracked. She has delivered one of these wrongly, luckily the guy came round and gave it to me.
I assume the same here as it was tracked it would have been deemed delivered.

I had an interesting text from royal mail this morning to say my delivery due today was sent to the wrong DO (around 75 miles away) so I am hopefully for tomorrow now.
I assume the risk goes up dramatically on this item since its going in the wrong direction now. Hopefully they put it into one the them "screw up bags" * and it get here

* I call them screw up bags, basically when they semi rip it up, dunk it in cow poop, let rats eat half of it, submerge it in water (numerous other ways to almost destroy your post exist) they put it in a sealed bag that gets delivered with basically sorry written on it.
 
Surveyor said:
The audio recording from the Ring Doorbell was an issue determined against the Defendant.
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Again if you read the main judge;s summary it was the audi from the Shed Camera and Driveway Camera which were the main issues. The ring doorbell got included as it was all part of his whole security system. The shed and driveway cameras were both claimed to be dummy cameras I think and the guy was recording video and audio on both and they were both pointing at the woman's property.

The guy is a tool and deserves all he gets. That doesnt mean that all ring doorbells might lead to you losing your house like the DM claims................
 
Greebo said:
Again if you read the main judge;s summary it was the audi from the Shed Camera and Driveway Camera which were the main issues. The ring doorbell got included as it was all part of his whole security system. The shed and driveway cameras were both claimed to be dummy cameras I think and the guy was recording video and audio on both and they were both pointing at the woman's property.
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It wasn't one of the main issues but it was an issue.

Greebo said:
The guy is a tool and deserves all he gets. That doesnt mean that all ring doorbells might lead to you losing your house like the DM claims................
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I didn't say it would but when cases like this end up in court someone is going to end up with a large legal bill.
 
Surveyor said:
I didn't say it would but when cases like this end up in court someone is going to end up with a large legal bill.
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Yes, and I guess @Greebo is saying, we're unlikely to see many other cases like this, so let's not worry much about it :) I heard the guy got really aggressive with the neighbour too, which was why they decided to get legal about it.
 
SixTwoSix said:
For anyone still interested, Apex is back off holiday now and have asked if he can approach the depot with his GPS data. As RM are using this as proof of delivery, i'd hope his own GPS data showing him in another town at time of delivery might have some weight. I've suggested this is done by letter as then the reply will help with small claims if needed.

I've also been getting some advice elsewhere where they deal with these sort of disputes a lot, they've advised to request all records of the investigation from RM or if they won't supply them, at least request they are retained. This is prior to a letter of intent leading into small claims proceedings if it goes that way.
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Hopefully you get somewhere with it, but RM will probably just say it was left with another member of the household
 
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