Rumour: AMD's 4096 Shader Big Navi in Q4 2019?

s6545 · 29 Jul 2019 at 23:55

I don't think the Navi 12 chip exists (as the RX 5800). Why call it the Navi 12 (rather than Navi 20), if it's such a powerful chip?

Or, it's a low end chip, which confusingly has a slightly higher number than the 5700 XT (perhaps just to indicate that it was created later).

AMD increased chip names in 10s to differentiate between high end chips for Polaris and Vega GPUs.

EastCoastHandle · 30 Jul 2019 at 00:11

s6545 said:
I don't think the Navi 12 chip exists (as the RX 5800). Why call it the Navi 12 (rather than Navi 20), if it's such a powerful chip?

Or, it's a low end chip, which confusingly has a slightly higher number than the 5700 XT (perhaps just to indicate that it was created later).

AMD increased chip names in 10s to differentiate between high end chips for Polaris and Vega GPUs.

Whatever it's called it still coming though.
But what doesn't make sense to me is to have Navi10 as 5700 then have Navi12 as 5600.
Then have Navi20 as 5800. The number scheming is out of order.

Panos · 30 Jul 2019 at 00:45

s6545 said:
I don't think the Navi 12 chip exists (as the RX 5800). Why call it the Navi 12 (rather than Navi 20), if it's such a powerful chip?

Or, it's a low end chip, which confusingly has a slightly higher number than the 5700 XT (perhaps just to indicate that it was created later).

AMD increased chip names in 10s to differentiate between high end chips for Polaris and Vega GPUs.

NV_NAVI12_P_A0 = 10,

alongside

Is the code added to the Linux drivers last month.

P is the high performance chips.
M are the mobile.
Lite are possibly the APU & Consoles

FYI Navi 14 the mobile part found itself again the last drop of the AMD code here.
https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/amd-gfx/2019-July/036278.html

s6545 · 30 Jul 2019 at 01:02

Panos said:
alongside

P is the high performance chips.
M are the mobile.
Lite are possibly the APU & Consoles

It could be meaningful. But, if Navi 10 and Navi 12 are both 'Performance' rated parts, then Navi 12 may simply be a lower tier 'performance' GPU. Or put another way, another mid tier GPU, perhaps the RX 5600. This seems more likely as not much time has passed since the 5700 XT was launched.

Panos · 30 Jul 2019 at 01:10

s6545 said:
It could be meaningful. But, if Navi 10 and Navi 12 are both 'Performance' rated parts, then Navi 12 may simply be a lower tier 'performance' GPU. Or put another way, another mid tier GPU, perhaps the RX 5600. This seems more likely as not much time has passed since the 5700 XT was launched.

sure. Nobody disagrees that might be 5600 part.

s6545 · 30 Jul 2019 at 01:35

Panos said:
sure. Nobody disagrees that might be 5600 part.

The Navi 21 looks like the one to watch I'd say. I will wait for some news about that chip.

4K8KW10 · 30 Jul 2019 at 06:34

Hades said:
I'm going with:

5600 and 5800 in Q4 2019
5900 XT Ti Super Big Navi in 2020

Arcturus being the successor to Vega for compute but without significant GPU capabilities (the clue is in the name - Vega and Arcturus both being stars, with Arcturus being a much, much larger star than Vega).

I can't wait for the time when we all will forget Vega as part of some very unsuccessful and dark age of the AMD Graphics Group development.

Arcturus, on the other hand, is a great codename and they must begin using it as soon as possible.

Imagine Radeon Arcturus XT

in fight with the Titans....

DragonQ · 30 Jul 2019 at 07:27

Martini1991 said:
It's always been obvious that the 5700XT isn't the high end despite some recent rhetoric from some.
Which is why the 5700XT's price is such a disappointment as it's a really good performing mid tier part.

It has the same die size as Polaris but not the same price point.

AMD trying to use nVidia's price inflation to make some dough instead of waking the sleeping giant I suppose. Overall landscape is still meh for consumers, even if these cards are pretty good.

Hades · 30 Jul 2019 at 07:55

4K8KW10 said:
I can't wait for the time when we all will forget Vega as part of some very unsuccessful and dark age of the AMD Graphics Group development.

Arcturus, on the other hand, is a great codename and they must begin using it as soon as possible.

Imagine Radeon Arcturus XT in fight with the Titans....

Agree about the name Arcturus although Vega is a great name too. But I'm not sure why Vega gets so much hate. Yes it was a bit warm and thr pricing was terrible during The Mining Wars. But the V56 and V64 are good cards. The V56 right now is a great card for the money. Even Radeon VII was actually a good card but at the wrong price point and with gimped early drivers.

4K8KW10 · 30 Jul 2019 at 09:06

Hades said:
Agree about the name Arcturus although Vega is a great name too. But I'm not sure why Vega gets so much hate. Yes it was a bit warm and thr pricing was terrible during The Mining Wars. But the V56 and V64 are good cards. The V56 right now is a great card for the money. Even Radeon VII was actually a good card but at the wrong price point and with gimped early drivers.

Warmth was the last and least important problem of a Vega card in a long list of problems.
It's the poor volta(ge) thing, low absolute performance nowhere near its competition of GTX 1080 Ti and its low performance-to-watt efficiency.

Radeon VII has 16GB of expensive HBM2 and the retail price needs to cover the BOM.
The problem is the low performance which doesn't allow to price it against RTX 2080 Ti, for instance.

And Vega sounds too specific, very similar as vegan, vegetarian, virgin and other "bright" words from the language.

Oh, and I need confirmations from the others, but I think AMD lowered the image quality on its Vega cards. I think I get better picture on my Polaris 21 than on the Vega 8 which is somehow darker and with less details.

TheRealDeal · 30 Jul 2019 at 09:50

4K8KW10 said:
Warmth was the last and least important problem of a Vega card in a long list of problems.
It's the poor volta(ge) thing, low absolute performance nowhere near its competition of GTX 1080 Ti and its low performance-to-watt efficiency.

Radeon VII has 16GB of expensive HBM2 and the retail price needs to cover the BOM.
The problem is the low performance which doesn't allow to price it against RTX 2080 Ti, for instance.

And Vega sounds too specific, very similar as vegan, vegetarian, virgin and other "bright" words from the language.

Oh, and I need confirmations from the others, but I think AMD lowered the image quality on its Vega cards. I think I get better picture on my Polaris 21 than on the Vega 8 which is somehow darker and with less details.

Vega sounds nothing like Vegan lmao. When i think Vega i think Street Fighter not Vegan, vegetarian or anything like that.

stooeh · 30 Jul 2019 at 11:19

Makes me think of the star Vega (like in the film Contact)

s6545 · 30 Jul 2019 at 16:44

I think I could be wrong about Navi 21, since Polaris 21 and Polaris 22 were both low end / mobile chips. Basically, I don't think we have any reliable information about the RX 5800 or RX 5900 yet.

Hopefully I'm not stating something that's really obvious to everyone else...

Vince · 30 Jul 2019 at 16:53

stooeh said:
Makes me think of the star Vega (like in the film Contact)

That's because they are all stars, Vega, Navi, Polaris and Acturus what do they have in common? Yep they are all stars. Interestingly Navi is the only star in the night sky named after an astronaut and is Ivan backwards

Vince · 30 Jul 2019 at 17:04

4K8KW10 said:
Oh, and I need confirmations from the others, but I think AMD lowered the image quality on its Vega cards. I think I get better picture on my Polaris 21 than on the Vega 8 which is somehow darker and with less details.

This is not something I have noticed but is something I'll look into, I currently have approx 20 polaris based cards (both baffin and lexa based cards) and also Radeon 7, Vega64, Vega 11cu in radeon Pro 2200ge and also Vega 24cu in KabyLake G. I'd be seriously surprised if there was any difference on the same monitor but gotta be worth a look.

4K8KW10 · 30 Jul 2019 at 17:17

Vince said:
This is not something I have noticed but is something I'll look into, I currently have approx 20 polaris based cards (both baffin and lexa based cards) and also Radeon 7, Vega64, Vega 11cu in radeon Pro 2200ge and also Vega 24cu in KabyLake G. I'd be seriously surprised if there was any difference on the same monitor but gotta be worth a look.

It's possible that the difference comes from the Vega 8 which sends only RGB signals, while the RX 560X can do YCbCr 4:4:4. YCbCr looks brighter.

Vince · 30 Jul 2019 at 17:20

4K8KW10 said:
It's possible that the difference comes from the Vega 8 which sends only RGB signals, while the RX 560X can do YCbCr 4:4:4. YCbCr looks brighter.

Hmm interesting I wonder what the default on Vega 11 is as I only just set that machine up yesterday. I'll have a look and see what it does.

EastCoastHandle · 30 Jul 2019 at 18:18

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/amd-navi-12-chip-intended-for-rx-5800.html

Another article suggesting that Navi12 is 5800. But this is still a rumor.

Vexr · 30 Jul 2019 at 19:29

Is there any precedent where a GPU has released several months earlier than what the company road-map said?

Davedree · 30 Jul 2019 at 21:57

Vince said:
This is not something I have noticed but is something I'll look into, I currently have approx 20 polaris based cards (both baffin and lexa based cards) and also Radeon 7, Vega64, Vega 11cu in radeon Pro 2200ge and also Vega 24cu in KabyLake G. I'd be seriously surprised if there was any difference on the same monitor but gotta be worth a look.

There is no difference when set to the same configuration, He started the post here https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/32721496/
My r5 2500u in answer to it here https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/32734063/ can do 4k60 at 8-10-12 bit but limited obviously due to Hdmi2 bandwidth, on displayport it can do whatever you want same as my Vega 64.

Vega 8 does not send only Rgb signals like 4k is saying, It is a mixture of bandwidth limitations and colour bit depth via hdmi which will limit you to certain settings.
I believe it's down to his Lg 4k monitor and the ultra deep setting, or something funky with the Laptop dual display setting,