'Russia is seriously running out of cash'

[Mr Jack]

Whats up with anti-Russian propaganda lately, is it maybe Russia is violating the standard Anglosaxonic theory that allies must be weak or else they must be crushed?

"Propaganda"?

Views on Russia got a lot worse when they, you know, annexed a section of neighbouring country, helped stir up a civil war there, and helped shoot down a passenger plane. Stepping up their hacking efforts hasn't helped either.

 

[Tefal]

which is exactly what you are guilty of doing yourself above.

indeed his argument so far has been ~"ok russia is bad for gay people but look isis is worse!!"


wait wasnt that trumps line of argument for litterly everything in the debate?

 

[h4rm0ny]

A great example of how Putin and his government are geniuses at propaganda and obfuscation. Does anyone seriously believe that if Putin really thought they shouldn't be in jail for that long that they wouldn't?!

You think a premier of a nation should directly intervene in criminal cases? Well, maybe if you're Silvio Berlusconi. You can't have it both ways. So if he is telling judges what to do, he's corrupt. If he doesn't, it's because he wants them to go to prison.

And of course they're not exactly innocent in the first place. As I said, Russia is very sensitive to inciting religious hatred given its communist history and how many people Stalin and others persecuted.

 

[Washout]

Change the word Russia with US and Putin with Senators and POTUS and it still fits. Uncanny that

So Obama holds huge shares in Americas largest utilities companies? He's changed the constitution to allow him to serve for more terms?

Are American journalists being jailed/shot for not towing a political line?!
I'm not naïve enough to think any country is free from corruption but do you really think Americas is on a level with Russia?

Sorry, I've said before. The US is hardly a paragon of virtue. Their political system is a bit of a mess but it is at least democratic. They've got crazy laws (or lack of) and really social issues that need solving.
But when defending criticism of Russia, pointing at the US and saying, "but they're just as bad" doesn't really cut it. Especially when it's not always true.

 

[Tefal]

That's very different. If NI voted to rejoin Eire then it could.

no it couldn't.
#it could only do that if the uk government let it.

 

[Washout]

That's very different. If NI voted to rejoin Eire then it could.

Invading a country and then having a poll, again at gunpoint the day after isn't a valid reason to invade in the first place.

 

[Washout]

You think a premier of a nation should directly intervene in criminal cases? Well, maybe if you're Silvio Berlusconi. You can't have it both ways. So if he is telling judges what to do, he's corrupt. If he doesn't, it's because he wants them to go to prison.

And of course they're not exactly innocent in the first place. As I said, Russia is very sensitive to inciting religious hatred given its communist history and how many people Stalin and others persecuted.

Absolutely he shouldn't get involved. It's odd how many rivals end up in jail though.

 

[RoboCod]

indeed his argument so far has been ~"ok russia is bad for gay people but look isis is worse!!"


wait wasnt that trumps line of argument for litterly everything in the debate?

*her

 

[Mr Jack]

Invading a country and then having a poll, again at gunpoint the day after isn't a valid reason to invade in the first place.

The vote in Crimea has about as much credibility as the elections in North Korea. It was a propaganda stunt, nothing more.

 

[FortuitousFluke]

You think a premier of a nation should directly intervene in criminal cases? Well, maybe if you're Silvio Berlusconi. You can't have it both ways. So if he is telling judges what to do, he's corrupt. If he doesn't, it's because he wants them to go to prison.

And of course they're not exactly innocent in the first place. As I said, Russia is very sensitive to inciting religious hatred given its communist history and how many people Stalin and others persecuted.

I think the suggestion is that he does tell judges what to do, so when he doesn't it's because he wants them to go to jail. Right or wrong doesn't really come into it, and corruption is assumed in the example.

I've got no stake in the debate, just clearing things up, wouldn't want the point to get lost in all the confusion.

 

[StriderX]

Russia probably doesnt care about the sanctions because they believe that China will have its way with the Yuan being a reserve currency, thus negating entirely the point of the sanctions as they'll just trade oil/services in Yuan instead.

 

[RaohNS]

So Obama holds huge shares in Americas largest utilities companies? He's changed the constitution to allow him to serve for more terms?

No but Obama was propped up with $1bn+ of funds from hyper wealthy people.

Are American journalists being jailed/shot for not towing a political line?!
I'm not naïve enough to think any country is free from corruption but do you really think Americas is on a level with Russia?

Show me conclusive proof the Russians kill journalists. Informants are shot/killed by both sides because of damage they do/could do. We don't know what is level and what is not. Its smoke and mirrors and media spin.

Sorry, I've said before. The US is hardly a paragon of virtue. Their political system is a bit of a mess but it is at least democratic. They've got crazy laws (or lack of) and really social issues that need solving.
But when defending criticism of Russia, pointing at the US and saying, "but they're just as bad" doesn't really cut it. Especially when it's not always true.

Its democratic? Really? I think you need to revisit that.

Every nation has its problems, that's known. It isn't always true no, but neither are the constant headlines from the BBC denouncing something they "think" Putin has done.

no it couldn't.
#it could only do that if the uk government let it.

People vote en masse to leave the UK and rejoin Ireland that would be their choice. The right to self determination.

Invading a country and then having a poll, again at gunpoint the day after isn't a valid reason to invade in the first place.

That's not what happened in Crimea though. One poster active in here claimed Crimea was a "textbook" invasion. It was nothing of the sort. You have to ask two things really: Why did Russia send in troops (very small numbers I hasten to add) and the second being who started this situation in Ukraine. You figure those two out and you're on the right track to epiphany.

 

[Rroff]

That's not what happened in Crimea though. One poster active in here claimed Crimea was a "textbook" invasion. It was nothing of the sort. You have to ask two things really: Why did Russia send in troops (very small numbers I hasten to add) and the second being who started this situation in Ukraine. You figure those two out and you're on the right track to epiphany.

Not including "local defence units" and volunteers it wasn't that small - 10s of thousands of troops were assigned to the Crimean op.

 

[Werewolf]

Not including "local defence units" and volunteers it wasn't that small - 10s of thousands of troops were assigned to the Crimean op.

And there was a massive surge in "training" accidents around that time in the Russian forces that had never even been near the Ukranian border, if the official Russian line is true.
Including from memory large percentages from specific units and a number whose bodies were not recovered for burial (which I suspect is rather unusual in armed forces who died on training exercises on land, in a friendly country let alone their home country).

 

[Rroff]

That was mostly related to the Donbass stuff I believe.

 

[Tefal]

People vote en masse to leave the UK and rejoin Ireland that would be their choice. The right to self determination.

they cant hold the vote without parliament approval.

did you not pay attention during the Scottish referendum.

no part of a country has a "right" to secede , it may be allowed to be it had no protected right to.



but for it to be comparable top the crimea the ROI would have to invade NI then hold a vote.

 

[RaohNS]

they cant hold the vote without parliament approval.

did you not pay attention during the Scottish referendum.

no part of a country has a "right" to secede , it may be allowed to be it had no protected right to.

but for it to be comparable top the crimea the ROI would have to invade NI then hold a vote.

*waits for Catalonia

 

[RaohNS]

Not including "local defence units" and volunteers it wasn't that small - 10s of thousands of troops were assigned to the Crimean op.

Russian troops were there to prevent atrocities being carried out eg: Like what Ukrainian soldiers did in Donbass.

Tens of thousands I would err caution on, a few thousand seems plausible.

 

[Werewolf]

Russian troops were there to prevent atrocities being carried out eg: Like what Ukrainian soldiers did in Donbass.

Tens of thousands I would err caution on, a few thousand seems plausible.

Would they be the same Russian soldiers the Kremlin was adamant were no where near the area and most certainly not being sent into the Ukraine in Russian army vehicles at the time?

 

[Rroff]

Russian troops were there to prevent atrocities being carried out eg: Like what Ukrainian soldiers did in Donbass.

Tens of thousands I would err caution on, a few thousand seems plausible.

Depending on source there are estimates between 11K and 25K - observation of equipment and inventory movement suggests around 16-20K.