those articles are a bit out of date following federal laws.
but at least in the usa LGBT people can still get a drivers license.
'Russia is seriously running out of cash'
- Thread starter Sankari
- Start date
those articles are a bit out of date following federal laws.
but at least in the usa LGBT people can still get a drivers license.
Soldato
- Joined
- 1 Mar 2010
- Posts
- 6,306
Prejudice doesn't respect borders, but in the US one's constitutional rights can be effectively contested, not perfectly, and fundamentalist crazies do have recourse to the same legalistic methods too, but the rule of law in Russia is something else entirely. What was it? 'For my friends -- everything; for my enemies -- the law!' With a weak judiciary and other checks on the presidency absent, corrupt or ineffective, Putin, or anyone holding the office with implied or open support of the military and industry, has few barriers in rewriting the social contract or interpreting it to mean whatever he wants it to mean.
Soldato
And your anecdote, highly time, location and personal attitude-dependant as it is, somehow dismisses one of the most respected Russian public opinion researchers and Putin's own advisers? Please, Raoh, don't get on that treadmill again!
Well, I actually have the event on video, it was only after I stopped filming my mate told me what had gone on. So my anecdote holds water. Again, in my experience the claims about Russia being anti-gay are something I take with a pinch of salt. Of course it may depend on the locations used for research.
I wont jack don't worry, me and treadmills aren't the best of friends.
Soldato
Hey, well at least LGBT people can still be allowed to live and not killed in every brutal manner by the way our "friends" in the Emirati nations do.
or the Russian police force/justice system is worse at its job, more open to bribery or is more corrupt.
Soldato
In Russia you can just buy drivers licenses. Not that the tester would know if you are gay or not, unless you grab his handbrake
Soldato
So you're arguing that Russia wants to be more oppressive but is held back by corruption. A weird sort of "thought that counts" argument that depends on (a) saying a country still counts as oppressive if it wants to be; (b) presupposes that imprisonment inversely correlates with corruption which doesn't feel historically right; (c) presupposes a lack of corruption in the US police force; (d) assumes a priori that Russia authorities wish to imprison a higher percentage of their population. As prisons in Russia are state-managed rather than privately owned for profit as in the USA, there's little inherent incentive for that last one that I can see.
Hmmmm. I think you have over-reached with this one.
Last edited:
Soldato
no ones holding them up as a better alternative to America though are they?
No? The discussion seems to have become one of which country of the USA or Russia has the greatest moral authority. And this particular battlefront is on the treatment of LGBT. I would say a point that America keeps in power regimes that are far, far more oppressive in how they treat these minorities than Russia is a valid one.
Associate
- Joined
- 3 Oct 2014
- Posts
- 1,760
Soldato
Whats up with anti-Russian propaganda lately, is it maybe Russia is violating the standard Anglosaxonic theory that allies must be weak or else they must be crushed?
Associate
I didn't know Putins troll factory would reach so far and wide, but apparently so.
This thread was about Russian economy, but some people are very effective at derailing it. I don't know what propaganda it is to actually show their own governmental papers about their spending...
This thread was about Russian economy, but some people are very effective at derailing it. I don't know what propaganda it is to actually show their own governmental papers about their spending...
Soldato
America keeps in power oppressive regimes. In the meantime, Russia pretty much is an oppressive regime
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pussy_Riot
Caporegime
Something to do with annexing Crimea, invading Ukraine, shooting down a passenger jet by accident, mass slaughter of people in Syria. Just my guess.
Soldato
And the West fostered ISIS, who have been throwing homosexuals from the roofs of four-storey buildings in Syria. Your initial point was to damn Russia for its attitude to LGBT. You now seem to be arguing that USA is not worse.
Homosexuality is legal in Russia, but there is prejudice in some places. This is the same as the USA. Homosexuality is not taught in sexual education in schools in Russia (I believe), there aren't strong laws protecting people from prejudice. Certainly there is room for improvement. But you seem to ignore people like Tosno who spend time living in Russia and dispute Western perceptions in favour of partisan judgements. The USA has many similar problems but it is Russia you damn. The point being that in the West, biased reporting distorts things. Pussy Riot being a case in point. Their sentence was overly-harsh (I'm quoting Putin here, btw), but they're not the innocent victims of prejudice most Westeners think they are. You are unwilling to believe that Western views on homosexuality in Russia might also be distorted. Remember, nobody is claiming everything is perfect - incidents in Russia you might cite can be matched with incidents from the USA. The claim is that people opposed to Russia look for and exaggerate things to support a partisan favouring of one country over the other.
Soldato
Crimea - a Russian speaking former part of Russia handed to Ukraine after WWII with a population that by a large majority voted to be part of Russia.
Contrast that with the countries the USA has bombed or invaded or both. Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan.
Partisan, much?
And the situation in Syria has been heavily fostered by the USA fostering ISIS and other rebel groups. Again, partisan much?
Why some chickens are so eager to defend their particular farmer over another, I do not know.
Soldato
America keeps in power oppressive regimes. In the meantime, Russia pretty much is an oppressive regime
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pussy_Riot
Pussy Riot's sentence was overly-harsh (I'm quoting Putin here), but Russia is very sensitive to religious hatred due to the Communist era when religious people were violently oppressed. Pussy Riot invaded churches, promoted violence against religious people, called for people to kill police... Sentences were too long (as Putin said) but it's weird that they become this hill upon which critics of Russia want to die. I guarantee that 9/10 people in the West who use them as evidence of Russia's oppressive nature would not want these people anywhere near them, would freak the Hell out if they lived in a squat next door to you and not be sympathetic if Pussy Riot were British.
Soldato
Goodness me, the level of soviet love on this forum is astounding! The Russian government are as corrupt if not worse than the US. How anyone champions Putin is beyond me.
Soldato
All mere speculation.