Poll: Russian Grand Prix 2018, Sochi - Race 16/21
- Thread starter Shimmy
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Soldato
He's right though. There's been a couple of races where they've kept Kimi out longer than normal to try to disrupt others, but Raikkonen has actually overtaken Vettel more in races this year than the other way around.
Man of Honour
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you really think that? Brilliant.
Soldato
Ferrari are, of course, using team orders / strategy. They're just doing so very poorly.
Team orders can only maximise your points when you are focussed on getting a single driver to the WDC - they don't make you beat the other teams. If Ferrari were doing a better job, qualifying first, winning races, being faster, there's nothing that Mercedes team orders could do about it. Take out (for instance) all of Vettel's mistakes this year, and they'd be ahead in the championship.
Rumours that recently the FIA have fitted a 2nd sensor to monitor battery energy output, and this appears to correlate with Ferrari's recent loss of power advantage on the straights since Singapore.
Renault have come out and confirmed this loss of advantage by measuring GPS data.
Renault have come out and confirmed this loss of advantage by measuring GPS data.
Soldato
I doubt it as this was investigated before the summer break and nothing was found amiss. The only thing I have heard is that the FIA are investigating why Ferrari are covering up one car camera pointed at the cockpit on the starting grid..
Seems to have been added after pressure from rival teams, info is from one of the most reliable Journo's in the paddock https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/1047045724628815872
The camera thing appears to hide start line procedure, last I saw they swapped the dry ice bag with an umbrella
Soldato
I don't understand the bitterness/bickering surrounding this, it's a team sport and Ferrari have used team orders for decades with clear number one and two drivers. Seb has even come out and said he agrees with what Mercedes did (although it could be argued he's having a dig at his team for not doing the same in the last few races) so just move on IMO.
Soldato
The rumour stems from supposed quotes from Cyril Abiteboul that Ferrari were, prior to Singapore, gaining 0.5 on the straights compared to Mercedes, which is clearly utter nonsense. Vettel got a better start at Sochi, but Mercedes had accounted for that and placed Bottas directly in front of Hamilton to give him a slipstream (the same as Vettel and Hamilton had through Curve Grande at Monza, where they were pretty much equal behind Raikkonen).
If it was true that the Ferrari was getting a 0.5 second advantage on the straights (that's the sort of advantage Ferrari and Mercedes have over Renault) then they would have been miles ahead of Mercedes at Monza and Vettel wouldn't have simply nipped ahead of Hamilton up the Kemmel straight at Spa (at which point the Mercedes started coming back - neither were out of electrical power at that point as their lights weren't flashing - he just had a better run through Eau Rouge and a slipstream).
I'm fairly sure Toto Wolff was saying similar figures on some of the six races before Singapore. I even remember watching some side by side Qualifying lap comparisons between Vettel/Lewis where Vettel was simply gaining on straights?
If it was some random Journo on the grid I'd be more sceptical, but Tobias has proven reliable many times.
If it was some random Journo on the grid I'd be more sceptical, but Tobias has proven reliable many times.
Yeah, the gap to Mercedes seems to have opened up again. Ferrari wouldn't be the first team to cheat the rules by getting around the test designed to enforce the rule. If the FIA have another sensor to measure the battery output, then Ferrari can't use the extra power that a second battery hidden inside the main battery would give them. It doesn't matter how much power you hide in the car if actually using it betrays the fact that you've got it.
A lot of the other teams were saying that they could make their cars suddenly gain performance as the Ferrari did, but only by cheating, so changing the test has always been an option.
Just checked, Toto indeed has claimed a 5 tenths advantage that Ferrari had over Mercedes on the straights at Germany:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/...econd-straightline-gap-wolff-1062491/3145483/
Soldato
Oh I'm sure there was/is an advantage, but I'm fairly confident it's no where near the quoted figures.
I've no issues with the article itself, but some of the quotes from Cyril just don't make much sense, particularly the final one. According to him they may have trimmed the aero to make up for the reduced power coming out of the corners... yet if that was the case that would tell more at the end of the straights, not the first 3rd of them as he claims.
Confidence based on what though? Multiple teams saying up to 5 tenths based on GPS data.
I read that differently, I read it as Ferrari lost some time in corners too because they can't run as much wing anymore due to the power loss.
I read that differently, I read it as Ferrari lost some time in corners too because they can't run as much wing anymore due to the power loss.
Soldato
But the supposed advantage of the engine was at the low end for the first third of the straight, on electrical power, the part least affected by aero. And at Singapore (one of those he mentioned) you'd run maximum downforce regardless.
Deleted member 651465
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Deleted member 651465
0.5 sec is a massive advantage on a single straight. Does he mean over the course of a lap?
Man of Honour
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I guess that makes sense for several reasons:
- spa, Ferrari breezed by Mercedes on the straight
- ferraris pace at the start of races
- the teams said the fia previous means of monitoring was ineffective
- sensor gets put on, pace disappears
Certainly an interesting thought. I don’t believe Mercedes upgrades have been worth this much.
- spa, Ferrari breezed by Mercedes on the straight
- ferraris pace at the start of races
- the teams said the fia previous means of monitoring was ineffective
- sensor gets put on, pace disappears
Certainly an interesting thought. I don’t believe Mercedes upgrades have been worth this much.
Soldato
The way Hamilton got past Vettel in Sochi was surprisingly easy, he had 2 overtaking opportunities in like a lap after the pit stops, looked like a car with plenty in hand.
Until the summer break Ferrari were clearly the best car and it was only a combination of the Hamilton factor and the odd dash of good fortune/Ferrari incompetence keeping Merc even in the hunt. Either the upgrades they’ve done are some of the best ever turning a deficit into a decent advantage or something more has happened.
Until the summer break Ferrari were clearly the best car and it was only a combination of the Hamilton factor and the odd dash of good fortune/Ferrari incompetence keeping Merc even in the hunt. Either the upgrades they’ve done are some of the best ever turning a deficit into a decent advantage or something more has happened.