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Ryzen "2" ?

Discussion in 'CPUs' started by beany_bot, Oct 9, 2017.

  1. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 26,629

    I'm off for some dinner... have fun with this one.
     
  2. CAT-THE-FIFTH

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 9, 2009

    Posts: 16,751

    Location: Planet Earth

    TBH,all this means diddly squat as RAM pricing is so crap,and the modern CPUs like faster RAM,whether its Intel or AMD. RAM pricing itself is probably more of a barrier,and its even making graphics cards even MORE overpriced.
     
  3. gavinh87

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 29, 2015

    Posts: 4,245

    Location: West Midlands

    You keep telling yourself that ryzen has coffee IPC because it says so in cinebench..... You know full well CPU frequency does not scale linearly. You also know full well this doesn't translate into gaming.

    Enjoy your dinner, hit me up when you want to test your CPU.
     
  4. gavinh87

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 29, 2015

    Posts: 4,245

    Location: West Midlands

    Indeed, my 1070 has lost zero value since I got it a year ago.
    I have already seen people head over to consoles due to pricing.
     
  5. eddiew

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 26, 2007

    Posts: 2,167

    Location: Leeds

    Agreed. I use 32gb and it cost more than the cpu+mb combined. Pretty sure I could have bought nearly the same kit for half the price a couple of years ago. But of course, it's all the same memory so there wasn't any choice other than to add a tube of lube to my basket along with.
     
  6. CAT-THE-FIFTH

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 9, 2009

    Posts: 16,751

    Location: Planet Earth

    Well my mates 3000MHZ 16GB Corsair kit which would have cost around £60 to £80 in 2016,costs around £180 to £190 now. Plus AMD,putting their foot off the GPU accelerator(due to the HBM and HBM2 miscalculation),and mining,etc has just made cards also more expensive for the improvements we get,in recent history. SSD pricing also seems to have gotten worse,and HDD pricing for years has stagnated. In fact the only things which have gone down are CPUs and monitors,but not enough to compensate for the rest of it. Even Windows 10 seems to be slightly more expensive.
     
  7. Combat Fighter

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 6, 2009

    Posts: 4,566

    Location: No Mans Land

    Does this mean there will be a new threadripper coming as well?
     
  8. CAT-THE-FIFTH

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 9, 2009

    Posts: 16,751

    Location: Planet Earth

  9. David Bisset

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 31, 2012

    Posts: 2,201

    Location: Edinburgh

    Enjoy testing :)

    Small note: lowering res changes the cpu workload with more draw call relative to other stuff so you're better leaving it.
     
  10. AndreiD

    Hitman

    Joined: Mar 12, 2017

    Posts: 792

    Location: Ireland

    Pretty sure that's the point of testing at lower resolutions, if you actually want a CPU-CPU comparison.

    @Combat Fighter New Threadripper will probably come around end of summer/early autumn.
     
  11. gavinh87

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 29, 2015

    Posts: 4,245

    Location: West Midlands

    Exactly the point. To highlight raw cpu performance. Which I'm still happy to do btw, for science if nothing else.
    We could even do a simple one like unigene heaven at 720p .
     
  12. Martini1991

    Caporegime

    Joined: Sep 18, 2009

    Posts: 25,745

    Location: Dormanstown.

    The whole Cinebench debate is because AMD's SMT scales better than Intels HT, so Intel loses a few percent and AMD gains a few percent. Ryzen's better than Haswell IPC (Slightly). But it's not up there with Coffeelake.

    Just run Cinebench without HT or CMT, same clock the 8700K will be faster. Simple.
     
  13. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 26,629

    IPC is IPC.

    I have my self point out this discrepancy between SMT and none SMT performance, but to argue that its not a fair comparison because AMD's SMT is better and therefore must be discounted is disingenuous to say the least, if it was the other way round i doubt anyone would dare make the argument that Intel's SMT performance should be disqualified. its ridiculous.
     
  14. Martini1991

    Caporegime

    Joined: Sep 18, 2009

    Posts: 25,745

    Location: Dormanstown.

    You say IPC is IPC. Yet you require both CPU's to be at 100% usage before your scenario of Ryzen performance is true. That *is* disingenuous. In your typical gaming scenario the CPU usages would be different to that of Cinebench and in those instances Coffeelake IPC is higher.

    I'm all for using Cinebench as an IPC indicator for gaming performance. But SMT/HT muddy the waters.
     
  15. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 26,629

    You don't understand what IPC is, you cannot gouge how many Instructions Per-Clock Cycle a CPU is capable of executing unless its running at full capacity, you are arguing aspects of the Ryzen architecture should be disabled because with them on it has higher IPC than it does with them off.

    Bonkers.
     
  16. gavinh87

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 29, 2015

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    Location: West Midlands

    Run heaven at 720p I'll downclock to 3.9 or whatever speed yours is at and we'll talk about gaming ipc.
     
  17. Martini1991

    Caporegime

    Joined: Sep 18, 2009

    Posts: 25,745

    Location: Dormanstown.

    I give up.

    When IPC was mentioned Intel versus AMD before AMD had SMT. Never once did people add the HT on.

    SMT/HT aren't used until all physical cores are used. AMD gain lost ground as more logical threads are used. But that isn't indicative of performance overall, especially in gaming.
     
  18. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 26,629

    Bulldozer? Bulldozer was a heap of ####, Intel's IPC was higher across the board, no ambiguity about that and its right to blatantly say with that "Intel has higher IPC" its true.

    Ryzen is not Bulldozer, which didn't have SMT, we are talking about Ryzen and Ryzen has SMT, you can't just make it go away.
     
  19. gavinh87

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 29, 2015

    Posts: 4,245

    Location: West Midlands

    Straw man :)
    Run heaven at 720p, why are you so reluctant?
     
  20. Martini1991

    Caporegime

    Joined: Sep 18, 2009

    Posts: 25,745

    Location: Dormanstown.

    Okay.

    You say IPC is IPC.

    If an application maxed out all 6 cores on the 8700K and the Ryzen 1600 (At the end of the day, this is a scenario that does happen in the real world. You can't force software to use more threads than it's capable of doing). But *didn't* to go the 7th thread onwards. At the same clock, is Ryzen performing the same as the 8700K?