Ryzen 7 2700x vs i7-8700k

Legend · 4 Jul 2018 at 20:10

The Asgard said:
A problem for some on these forums
No axe to grind.

So your saying you can’t tell the difference between 4 and 4.8 GHz on the desktop?

What on earth are you doing on your desktop to notice this when in the VAST majority of typical use cases it will be running at single digit % utilisation?

I'd also ask if you have your RAM working properly with Ryzen (a common issue), which is FAR more greatly utilised in desktop use.

The Asgard · 4 Jul 2018 at 20:22

Desktop for me is just common apps. It’s got nothing to do with utilisation but more to do with how fast code executes. Code executes faster with a higher clock, latency is reduced.

14,14,14,32 B Die, see sig.

It’s a good job other people can tell a difference, nobody would upgrade for that extra few Points of Ghz.

Legend · 4 Jul 2018 at 20:32

The Asgard said:
Desktop for me is just common apps. It’s got nothing to do with utilisation but more to do with how fast code executes. Code executes faster with a higher clock, latency is reduced.

14,14,14,32 B Die, see sig.

It’s a good job other people can tell a difference, nobody would upgrade for that extra few Points of Ghz.

Well if it's a purely visual loading time of apps etc. that would be easily demonstrate with video... I've not seen any such examples, nor have I seen anyone complain about this before.

The Asgard · 4 Jul 2018 at 20:35

Not complaining, just an observation after switching from the 2700x to the 8700K.
This is the snappiness people refer to.
Just to be clear, it is marginal but there. Both cpu’s are great but the 8700K feels more responsive. If wasn’t I would have swapped out my 87K.

Legend · 4 Jul 2018 at 20:42

The Asgard said:
Not complaining, just an observation after switching from the 2700x to the 8700K.
This is the snappiness people refer to.
Just to be clear, it is marginal but there. Both cpu’s are great but the 8700K feels more responsive. If wasn’t I would have swapped out my 87K.

Well as I say, it would be easily demonstrated with video (not that I'm suggesting you do this)... and this just isn't something I've seen done or even discussed really. You see these kind of examples done all the time with phones, but that's obviously easier to demonstrate as you can put two side by side.

The Asgard · 4 Jul 2018 at 20:49

Legend said:
Well as I say, it would be easily demonstrated with video (not that I'm suggesting you do this)... and this just isn't something I've seen done or even discussed really. You see these kind of examples done all the time with phones, but that's obviously easier to demonstrate as you can put two side by side.

You probably wouldn’t be able to demonstrate it in a video.
I’m pretty sure you would be dissapointed if you swapped out your 68K assuming it’s overclocked.

Do you not see any improvement with your computer when you overclock it? For example on the desktop you can feel a big difference (snappiness) with a 67K @ stock and then running @ 4.7K. Try it with your 68K

Visual studio feels much faster on an overclocked machine.

Legend · 4 Jul 2018 at 21:37

The Asgard said:
You probably wouldn’t be able to demonstrate it in a video.
I’m pretty sure you would be dissapointed if you swapped out your 68K assuming it’s overclocked.

Do you not see any improvement with your computer when you overclock it? For example on the desktop you can feel a big difference (snappiness) with a 67K @ stock and then running @ 4.7K. Try it with your 68K

Visual studio feels much faster on an overclocked machine.

If it can't be physically demonstrated/measured, then it isn't happening. If you're 'feeling' it, yet all visual indications and/or measurements/benchmarks etc. show no difference, then your 'feeling' is no more than that. Real in the sense that you may believe it, but that's where it ends. Computing tasks aren't ethereal in nature, it's all ones and zeros at the end of the day. Heck, even in situations where benchmarking clearly shows a difference, most people are at pains to actually feel and experience it.

The Asgard · 4 Jul 2018 at 21:55

OK, what ever you say boss.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 4 Jul 2018 at 21:57

The Asgard said:
OK, what ever you say boss.

The reason is quite clear. Your Asgard physiology is much more adept at feeling these changes. We are just merely human.

The Asgard · 4 Jul 2018 at 21:59

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
The reason is quite clear. Your Asgard physiology is much more adept at feeling these changes. We are just merely human.

That must be it

Legend · 4 Jul 2018 at 22:10

The Asgard said:
OK, what ever you say boss.

Seriously though, your argument is tantamount to a religious one if you're actually saying it can't be backed up by anything other than 'feeling'.

The Asgard · 4 Jul 2018 at 22:17

Legend said:
Seriously though, your argument is tantamount to a religious one if you're actually saying it can't be backed up by anything other than 'feeling'.

Is this not why people upgrade, because it feels slow. I didn’t realise that feeling was a religious experience

Legend · 4 Jul 2018 at 22:29

The Asgard said:
Is this not why people upgrade, because it feels slow. I didn’t realise that feeling was a religious experience

It depends. If that feeling is backed up by benchmarks and visual experience... i.e seeing programmes take longer to load, perform tasks etc. If the latter is absent, then that 'feeling' is false, imagined. Like time... staring at a wall for an hour feels like forever, vs a fun and enjoyable activity which will make that hour fly by. You will 'feel' time has passed much quicker, but obviously exactly the same amount of time has passed as you would have spent staring at that wall.

The Asgard · 4 Jul 2018 at 22:41

Legend said:
If the latter is absent, then that 'feeling' is false, imagined. Like time... staring at a wall for an hour feels like forever, vs a fun and enjoyable activity which will make that hour fly by. You will 'feel' time has passed much quicker, but obviously exactly the same amount of time has passed as you would have spent staring at that wall.

Is this like when you approach the speed of light and you become infinite mass and time goes backwards. Sort of thing ????
Never really understood Einstein's theory of relativity

Legend · 4 Jul 2018 at 22:50

The Asgard said:
Is this like when you approach the speed of light and you become infinite mass and time goes backwards. Sort of thing ????
Never really understood Einstein's theory of relativity

Well no, special relativity doesn't really come in to play here exactly, but actually, it only further demonstrates the point I'm making... that 'feeling' doesn't necessarily have any relationship with reality.

The Asgard · 4 Jul 2018 at 22:52

Legend said:
Well no, special relativity doesn't really come in to play here exactly, but actually, it only further demonstrates the point I'm making... that 'feeling' doesn't necessarily have any relevance to reality.

Or may be, just may be. It feels slower, religious see the light experience here - because it IS slower, just a thought .......

Legend · 4 Jul 2018 at 22:55

The Asgard said:
Or may be, just may be. It feels slower, religious see the light experience here - because it IS slower, just a thought .......

If it feels slower but by no measurable method can be shown to be so, then you should be hooked up to machines and diodes to be studied by men in lab-coats. I'm sure Intel would love to fund that.

The Asgard · 5 Jul 2018 at 00:18

Legend said:
If it feels slower but by no measurable method can be shown to be so, then you should be hooked up to machines and diodes to be studied by men in lab-coats. I'm sure Intel would love to fund that.

But it is slower for most tasks. I think that’s a proven fact or are you disputing that?
Mate. Why don’t you buy the kit and see for your self rather than sitting at the keyboard and trying to be clever.
I’m passing on my hands on experience using both bits of kit. You can take it or leave it I have no axe to grind.

Legend · 5 Jul 2018 at 01:59

The Asgard said:
But it is slower for most tasks. I think that’s a proven fact or are you disputing that?
Mate. Why don’t you buy the kit and see for your self rather than sitting at the keyboard and trying to be clever.
I’m passing on my hands on experience using both bits of kit. You can take it or leave it I have no axe to grind.

Most tasks? What tasks are you referring to? Myriad benchmarks clearly show better performance of the 2700X over 8700K in tasks which utilise the extra cores. In gaming yes, 8700K wins out, but at higher resolutions the difference lessens, and is very much game dependent.

I'm not trying to be 'clever', but you're just saying you 'feel' something and then acknowledge that it wouldn't even be visually apparent. This is a deeply flawed analysis for the obvious reasons I've highlighted. By all means, if you had data to support this claim, whether that be in the form of a simple benchmark or video, I would have no reason to question, and it would be most informative and valid.

Gerard · 5 Jul 2018 at 03:28

Sounds more like placebo than anything, you know you're using something clocked higher so think some things are working faster.