Soldato
In 1979 i drove to Alicante via Madrid for a job lasting three months, that was a road trip
Sale of petrol and diesel cars to be banned by 2040
- Thread starter Big Spender
- Start date
And after the energy we currently get from oil for transport is driven onto the grid network, the next thing will be the energy we currently get from gas will also be forced onto it to cover space heating needs.
Even in the unlikely event that we can ensure a reliable supply of primary power without having to build a whole fleet of new nuclear power stations (Like 50 or more), the electrical distribution network at the local level would be nowhere near capable of carrying this additional load without a massive level of infrastructure investment.
That would be an extra 160GW assuming two 1.6GW reactors per station! We only use about 60GW at the moment and have nearly 90GW of generating capacity. Consumption per household is falling, and has been for years.
Soldato
Porsche just opened up a huge ev charging park run entirely on renewable energy.
It has a dozen 350kW rapid chargers and a hand full of tiddly 22kW ones.
https://www.engadget.com/2020/02/23/porsche-opens-most-powerful-ev-charging-park-europe/
That's a 2MW site using nothing but the sun/wind. Granted is only one site but it's a start, certainly would make sense for shopping complexes to invest in this sort of thing.
It has a dozen 350kW rapid chargers and a hand full of tiddly 22kW ones.
https://www.engadget.com/2020/02/23/porsche-opens-most-powerful-ev-charging-park-europe/
That's a 2MW site using nothing but the sun/wind. Granted is only one site but it's a start, certainly would make sense for shopping complexes to invest in this sort of thing.
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But the population is also growing.
Not once all the utility currently supplied by oil and gas is shifted over to electricity. Not sure of exact current proportions, but historically 2/3 of total energy consumption in the UK has been transport and space heating.
All of which has been(and Is being currently) suppled by oil and gas.
If you want to go zero carbon, then all of that will have to be switched over to electricity. Now some aspects of an electric switchover may be more efficient, so a direct KWhr-for-KWhr equivalence will not necessarily apply, but even allowing for that, an extra 160Gw of generating capacity is of the right order of magnitude to do this if not the actual figure.
(IE I wouldn't expect it to be more than 200, and I wouldn't expect it to be less than 80)
Cant open that without going through a tortuous Cookie control panel.
(How much land does it cover?
How many MWhrs can it produce over a year? IE how many vehicles can it actually service in practice?
(quoting peak output under optimal conditions is very misleading)
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Caporegime
I do Lincolnshire to North West Lithuania most years. 1500 miles in an old Saab. My mother has a house in North Eastern Poland that takes 18 hours to get to. Stay the night then drive on 5 hours to Lithuania. First time was really daunting. More breakdown anxiety than anything else. I must have checked my oil more than ten times but now its pretty normal and you get used to it and we often stop off at places on route if we fancy doing something touristy.
Will be driving to Gdansk this summer if we get into the Europa League Final.
Soldato
Mmm interesting, I just plopped Lincolnshire start, Lithuania Finish into a route planner for EV's using the Tesla Model 3 Long Range. The only potential issue is crossing Poland, its possible without charging (202 miles) but I would stop half way for 15 minutes just to get a little buffer before stopping in Warsaw for a big charge.
https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=17780b57-919e-4d9d-ad3b-cfb1554cfa1c
A model S long range would require fewer stops and you could do it purely on Tesla Super Chargers for a grand cost of £0.00, if you had free use still.
Something that isn't a Tesla like the Kia Niro would equally be just as fine using chargers from other companies, more stops needed but most of those stops are short 15-30 minute breaks and generally after 100-200 mile driving stints.
https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=dc94bf6f-d498-4f42-9cdf-a73ee79b029d
When you click the link it will need to calculate route which takes a few seconds.
https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=17780b57-919e-4d9d-ad3b-cfb1554cfa1c
A model S long range would require fewer stops and you could do it purely on Tesla Super Chargers for a grand cost of £0.00, if you had free use still.
Something that isn't a Tesla like the Kia Niro would equally be just as fine using chargers from other companies, more stops needed but most of those stops are short 15-30 minute breaks and generally after 100-200 mile driving stints.
https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=dc94bf6f-d498-4f42-9cdf-a73ee79b029d
When you click the link it will need to calculate route which takes a few seconds.
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Caporegime
Nice we stop twice for fuel and that's it. Maybe once if I had a diesel.
Soldato
But that’s not really the case is it?
The refining process alone uses multiple TwH hours of electricity from the grid each year alone. An oil refinery uses more electricity than a large town (like the size of Coventry). Then factor in all the transport of said fuel (pipelines, trucking and shipping) and all the energy that is used extracting said crude). The last stats were reported in 2005, the industry unsurprisingly refuses to report it and it’s not in the govs interest to force them. Fuel consumption has increased since then (through more cars in the road).
There is a reason why the big old refineries in Texas are installing huge solar and wind warms to power the refinery. Funnily enough it’s cheaper than using a gas/oil fuelled power station...
Caporegime
Well yeah expected, but how many kittens did you suffocate on the way
Less than the cost of making that new model s to test your theory. That's the irony in a nutshell that actually buying a brand new EV car to replace a perfectly functional ICE car is ironically more environmentally damaging but capitalism yo!
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Soldato
I think the BBC team from The Apprentice are looking for entrepreneurs like you keyboard Masher.
I have seen this before if its true its very interesting, (I have no reason to think it's not true)
Capitalism is great but some times we should steer it in the right direction..
Tesla is just about to cut down a load of trees in Germany to build a new factory
That's how much they actually give a ****. People don't get as rich as Musk by being an environmentalist.
They cut down the trees to build a factory that will reduce co2 output many times more than that lost by the loss of the trees
When you fell from the stupid tree did you miss any branches?
Musk is **** rich he is likley a ******* *** hole to work for, he is likley a ******" **** but his mission and personal goal for what ever reason benefit man kind (or appear to),.. I'd love to meet him but am under no illusions that someone so successful and rich would not want to speak to or entertain a pleb like me.
it’s true and the electricity draw of these places is insane. You should also consider the energy draw of a typical US house it’s multiples times that of a UK one due to heavy A/C use when looking at the ‘can power X households’ numbers.
from 2009
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB124623140359766167
to today
https://www.worldoil.com/news/2018/11/29/exxon-will-use-wind-solar-to-produce-crude-oil-in-texas
Caporegime
Don't forget a refinery is so much more than just petrol. One refinery also supports 11 million people (636 of them according to wiki) world wide.