Samsung PM961 Polaris 1TB M.2-2280

[mikeo]

Big.Wayne... Fair enough comments. Really comes down (as usual) to what an individual wants to do etc.

But... When i refer to professional system builders, I'm not really referring to whether an individual is experienced or not and it's certainly not meant as a slight on anyone. I am in fact referring to companies like Dell / HP etc. who build PC's, laptops etc. as a business.

As to faulty products always going back to the seller. This is in fact frequently not the case. In a lot of instances, it can be a hell of lot quicker to RMA direct back to the manufacturer. Take my new fancy gsync monitor, after 30 days, Dell handles the warranty directly. If you look on ocuk's web site, you'll find a page stating what components are handled via direct RMA to the manufacturer manufacturer. Though ultimately in UK law, the seller would in the end have to accept responsibility.

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/returns-details#opt3

Though i do take your point about there often being work around for problems etc . Unluckily not always though. In the case of the sm951, Samsung actually by all accounts removed the code to action the secure erase command. It being the controller that actually does the work, any external program (EG.. parted magic) just passes the instruction to the controller in the ssd to action. This was done i believe due to the fact that a number of people with early drives, managed to brick them while trying to secure erase them! Though not quite sure what the position with the sm961 etc. is. The latest version of parted magic does now have a program to secure erase nvme PCIe type drives and maybe this will work with the sm961 etc. Don't think I'd personally want to be the first one to try it though.

As long as you are happy with what you have bought, then fine

Basicaly... All I've been trying to say "is let the buyer beware".

PS. The idea of the spanking sounds interesting

 

[Big.Wayne]

All good mikeo, I do understand the points you are trying to make but I feel like your underestimating the folk that post on these forums who I believe are professional system builders and do make some money by putting together machines. Maybe I am making an incorrect assumption and there are now hoards of users fresh from PC world but last time I really posted a lot on these forums a great deal of the forum members were seriously intelligent when it came to hardware integration, dealing with issues and getting the best performance possible from a piece of hardware . . . a lot of times taking performance even higher than what the manufacturer intended!

I take your point about RMA, I was in fact referring to UK law and to stop a customer being fobbed off. If the point you were making was that an advantage to buying a retail drive is that you get a quicker RMA service in the initial 12 months by being able to deal direct with the manufacturer it didn't come across very clearly . . . even then it's both a debatable point and such a small deal that it may be you are grasping at anything that justifies the retail drives premium

Again with secure erase not being readily available for OEM Samsung drives, what does this actually mean and is it a real setback? . . . I'm no expert on secure erase so I may be missing something here, the only time I've ever used secure erase is when I sell a drive on. Why would someone lament not being able to secure erase their SSD?

I've only just bought a NVMe drive so still early days in terms of evaluation but so far performance is much better than a 2.5" SATA SSD and there has been no headaches.

Hearing your experiences it does appear you had a run of bad luck which has made you and your recommendations cautious, once bitten twice shy kind of thing and from your point of view those of us with better luck may appear a little cavalier in recommending an OEM drive that very well could be DOA and result in them being pinged ponged between reseller and manufacture resulting in a slow RMA followed up by being set upon by an "expert" in the parted magic forums haha

We both agree on the warranty pro and cons, 12 months vs 36 months and also some performance differences generally favouring the retail drives (512GB and above) but apart from that I think you may be overstating the "value" of Samsung Magician and its features.

Your point about "Let Buyer Beware" is good, once you start throwing hundreds of pounds at a storage drive then "extended warranty" will appeal to certain buyers but other professional system builders who make money by building computers for their customers will evaluate the hardware and make a judgement on longevity. The Samsung 960 EVO drives have a three year warranty, the Samsung 960 Pro have a five year warranty. Based on what you know how long would you estimate a typical PM961/SM961 NVMe SSD will last? . . . do you think the actual hardware is different in terms of quality, perhaps the OEM drives are produced using slightly less quality parts?

I think I would be miffed if I paid a premium for "extended warranty" and the hardware purred along like a kitten beyond the warranty duration, I think I would also be miffed if an OEM drive died after 15 months however I don't think it will and therefore can understand why a lot of forum users flock to OEM units.

Can't think of anything else really, is Samsung Magician software really that good?

 

[mikeo]

Big.Wayne

You once again make some very good points.

Certainly not calling into doubt the professialism, or otherwise, of the people that post here (or elsewhere). It's just that our definition of what constitutes a professional system builder differs somewhat in this context. As i said before, I'm not really talking about individuals here (regardless of whether they build the odd machines for profit, or not) but companies (EG. HP, Dell etc.). And it's these that these sorts of OEM drives are Intended for. Not really to be sold to Joe public. Hence why Samsung will not deal direct with an individual that's purchased one of these from a re-seller. But as you point out, under UK law, the retailer is responsible.

As it's starting to turn into a bit of a round robin discussion now, when my only originally intension was to point out "buyer beware". Then I'll thank you for your input and withdraw from the discussion

PS. Samsung magician is a pretty decent bit of software. Though maybe they've dropped the ball somewhat with the latest version. This now only shows retail drives and so you can't even see the OEM ones like this any longer.

 

[Richdog]

Fair enough.

You can also use acronis true image (2016 version onwards) as well.

What i was trying to point out in my post, is the total lack of support (from Samsung themselves) for individuals who purchase Samsung's OEM drives of this type through the retail chain. Something that a fair few people do not seem aware of. Maybe their stance has changed in the last 12 months or so, but I'd doubt it. Not knocking the drives, just trying to be helpful.

I agree with you 100%, it's something people should be aware of. I'm just saying that for us techies, it's not an obstacle. Your warranty is with the reseller and they are duty bound to honour it.

 

[Big.Wayne]

It's just that our definition of what constitutes a professional system builder differs somewhat in this context.

I agree, I think you need to rethink your definition on what an OEM is, it's a clever person or team of people who builds computers and makes money. If you wanted to point out to any beginners what an OEM drive is and any potential pitfalls that may ensue from saving some money and purchasing one I think you have done a good job but if you re read this thread you come across with great emphasis about "ZERO support from Samsung" and "Numerous reported incidents of Bricked Drives" and "Buyers Beware" . . . its almost like you are wanting to scare people into coughing up extra cash to protect themselves!

I was fine before I read your posts but you have gone well past the point of explaining the difference between an OEM and retail unit . . . . You are giving me "the fear" and I don't understand why your making such a fuss when your SM951 is running faultlessly, and despite this fact you would still recommend a retail drive even though you now know a lot of us are Techies? . . . I don't know why you are so anxious about all of this? . . . Do you buy extended warranties on everything now?

 

[mikeo]

You are obviously entitled to your opinion mate. Nothing i have stated is incorrect. It's obviously very much up to an individual what they want to to purchase. I am in no way attempting to frighten anyone into purchasing one thing or another. Frankly, what a ludicrous thing to imply. Think this conversation is over... Subscription to thread removed. Have a nice day squire.

 

[Richdog]

I agree, I think you need to rethink your definition on what an OEM is, it's a clever person or team of people who builds computers and makes money. If you wanted to point out to any beginners what an OEM drive is and any potential pitfalls that may ensue from saving some money and purchasing one I think you have done a good job but if you re read this thread you come across with great emphasis about "ZERO support from Samsung" and "Numerous reported incidents of Bricked Drives" and "Buyers Beware" . . . its almost like you are wanting to scare people into coughing up extra cash to protect themselves!

I was fine before I read your posts but you have gone well past the point of explaining the difference between an OEM and retail unit . . . . You are giving me "the fear" and I don't understand why your making such a fuss when your SM951 is running faultlessly, and despite this fact you would still recommend a retail drive even though you now know a lot of us are Techies? . . . I don't know why you are so anxious about all of this? . . . Do you buy extended warranties on everything now?

While agree that he is possibly overreacting a bit, I guess Samsung's washing of their hands for support of these drives, at least when a user approaches them directly and not the retailer, would be a concern for many. However, is a retailer sells you this then it is their job to provide support and replacement against fault as long as you have a sales warranty with them, so that negates the risk imo.

You are obviously entitled to your opinion mate. Nothing i have stated is incorrect. It's obviously very much up to an individual what they want to to purchase. I am in no way attempting to frighten anyone into purchasing one thing or another. Frankly, what a ludicrous thing to imply. Think this conversation is over... Subscription to thread removed. Have a nice day squire.

No need to take it so personally old chap, he was clearly yanking your chain a wee bit.

 

[Dave2150]

Also be aware that these (IE, SM961/PM961) are true OEM products aimed at professional system builders (rather like the SM951 that I have) and thus have ZERO support from Samsung. Even the warranty resides with the seller (IE. not Samsung).

+1, plus they don't function in Samsung's Magician software. Also they are a horrible Green/white colour - which look cheap and nasty if your case has a window etc. The 950 pro, 960 evo and 960 pro models are a sexy black colour, which is a nice aesthetic for those who care about it at least

Either way, now is a completely stupid time to consider buying a SSD unless you don't already have one. The NAND shortage will abate this year, as many new fabs are coming online which will massively increase production.

SSD prices will dramatically reduce in a few months, then is the time to buy!

 

[Richdog]

Also they are a horrible Green/white colour - which look cheap and nasty if your case has a window etc. The 950 pro, 960 evo and 960 pro models are a sexy black colour, which is a nice aesthetic for those who care about it at least

LOL...

Either way, now is a completely stupid time to consider buying a SSD unless you don't already have one. The NAND shortage will abate this year, as many new fabs are coming online which will massively increase production.

SSD prices will dramatically reduce in a few months, then is the time to buy!

It's not at all 'completely stupid' if you can't wait a few months. Prices have only risen by around 10% since last December, hardly earth shattering.

 

[Big.Wayne]

Well I'm grateful to mikeo for taking the time to share his point of view and also correcting my statement about RMA always going back to the reseller. I did actually forget about this so it's good to have these conversations to fine tune ones knowledge . . . however in the context of this general discussion I still feel that having to send a DOA drive back to OcUK instead of Samsung is such a minor thing that I'm surprised there are people out there that place such importance on this and would be prepared pay extra for the privilege. I bet you Samsung don't include a packet of Haribos with their RMAs?

Also this point about not having Samsungs Magician software with its out the box support for secure erase and other tools still requires further discourse. How important is this Magician software and why is secure erase important enough for some users to brick their OEM drives trying to secure erase them using parted magic?

 

[Richdog]

Also this point about not having Samsungs Magician software with its out the box support for secure erase and other tools still requires further discourse. How important is this Magician software and why is secure erase important enough for some users to brick their OEM drives trying to secure erase them using parted magic?

It's just Samsung's own partitioning software, and it can be replaced with other free tools. You lose little except the convenience factor and the nice slick user interface.

I guess they just don't want home users buying and easily using OEM drives instead of the more expensive Evo and Pro range.

 

[Big.Wayne]

And secure erase? . . . can anyone put a "spin" on this feature that makes it more compelling? When would one benefit from using secure erase other than before selling a drive on to eradicate any traces of sensitive data/questionable porno collection?

 

[mikeo]

Jumping back into the discussion now I've calmed down a bit. Apologies for getting a bit carried away

Carrying on from Big.Wayne's question above...

But does anyone know if the Secure Erase initiated by a tool like Samsung Magician is what I've always assumed is an "ATA Secure Erase"? This being where the firmware in the SSD resets all its storage cells as empty (releasing stored electrons). Thus not only sanitizing the drive but crucially recovering any lost performance. Hence returning the SSD to factory fresh out of the box condition. Now how appropriate the performance recovery side of this is in a modern SSD, I'm not sure myself. As one would have expected with modern SSD's, TRIM and effective garbage collection should keep them in reasonable condition performance wise.

I have read of people who take regular full disk image back ups and then on occasion Secure Erase their SSD/s and then recover the back ups to make sure their SSD's are working at peak efficiency. Now whether this is actually worthwhile, I don't know. So maybe Secure Erase is actually only useful for eradicating that questionable porn collection.

 

[tipes]

Talking of secure erase - what do people use for doing this? I have a Sammy 950 Pro