Soldato
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- 30 Sep 2005
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Well it sure made for an entertaining race. Most seasons Lewis had it wrapped up by now.
Can't wait for this coming weekend
Can't wait for this coming weekend
Poll: Saudi Arabian Grand Prix 2021, Jeddah - Race 21
- Thread starter Shimmy
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Soldato
I really want Max to win the last race.
Just so I can see this place go mental
Just so I can see this place go mental
Man of Honour
Had it been the old layout I think Max would have won it, but the new Abu Dhabi looks very much another powerhouse track.
Soldato
SameI really want Max to win the last race.
Just so I can see this place go mental
The sanctimony is understandable but in elite sports, it's win at all costs. These people wouldn't stand a chance.
Caporegime
Hamilton would 100% have behaved very differently if he was ahead in the championship and Max was pulling this ****. Then again, Max wouldn't be pulling this **** if he wasn't ahead and any DNF for Hamilton wasn't massively beneficial to himself.
Every sport has its rules and when you break them you should be punished. Most people don't like to watch people winning by cheating but each to their own. If you think thats what makes an elite sportsperson then thats a bit sad. Being massively competitive and driven is one thing, cheating is another. Max is straight up cheating and getting away with it.
I would wager that plenty of the people that now want Hamilton to win the Championship would have wanted anyone but him to win it this season at the start of it. I certainly did. I wanted someone new to take the mantle and challenge him but I sure as hell don't want that person to be Max after all the crap he has pulled this season.
I thought he was a bit rash but drove hard and fair and appreciated that. Now he has just become a dirty cheat.
I know what sort of racing I prefer to see, Lewis and Rosberg at Bahrain, Alonso going round the outside of MSC at 130r, tight corner after corner battles they are pure entertainment, yesterday was just stupid! But then thats why so many people watch motorsport for the crashes.
This… can you imagine Max having a teammate as good as Rosberg in a dominant car.
I know sometimes it ended in tears between Hamilton and Rosberg but, more often than not they knew they needed to maximise points against each other.
Max isn't stupid, but he is utterly selfish and self absorbed. He knew what he was doing and what the risk was, and as far as he was concerned, if he ended Hamilton's race, or both his and Hamilton's race by crashing their cars together, he was fine with that as it gave Max more advantage in the WDC.
Hamilton had to win here, anything else leaves him a near impossible mountain to climb in the last race, relying on a Max DNF and taking the pressure off Max who can just stroll in anywhere in the midfield. I have no doubt that Max "accidentally" causing a collision that he can blame on Hamilton would be totally acceptable to him, because he's done it so many times to so many drivers, and gotten away with little to no punishment for it. Max thinks it's an acceptable racing technique, and he had nothing to lose and everything to gain in the WDC.
Everyone expected Hamilton to have to be very, very careful if he had to overtake Verstappen, because of exactly this sort of behaviour that Max has always exhibited, and the chance that Verstappen would punt Hamilton off the track if he could. Brake checking is so dangerous we very rarely see it, yet here it is from Verstappen at a time a crash virtually hands him the WDC.
Sure we can clutch our pearls and say Max would never risk a DQ but he did brake check, he admitted to it, the telemetry shows it, and still he got no material punishment. It didn't quite work because Hamilton got away without losing his wing, but there's no doubt that Verstappen deliberatly did it to try and crash Hamilton out of the race and WDC.
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With good reason, it's borderline dangerous driving at this point.
He will happily 'defend' the inside line by braking so late it's impossible to make the turn and force others to avoid him - if another driver were to commit to their line (which they'd be perfectly entitled to do given how far ahead they have been) he'd simply end up t-boning them because of that recklessly late braking. He then laughably claims "well neither of us made the turn" without a hint of irony, as if it wasn't him going straight on that caused them to run off
On the flip side, he'll happily defend the outside line by just slamming the door shut on a car that's got a legitimate attempt to make the inside (not a 'never making the turn in a month of Sundays' style lunge).
He's gone beyond 'hard but fair racing' to 'get out of my way or we'll crash' virtually regardless of circumstance.
Commissario
He's been driving like this for years.
Oh I do hope so. You would have thought the massive impact in Silverstone would have made him think twice about these rash manoeuvres but he's so blinkered he absolutely cannot find any fault in what he's doing. And in that lies the danger.
You mean us? As the poster above said, it's a sport and in sport you are obliged to follow the rules. Otherwise it's a nonsense. Yes there a lot of grey area in motor racing but what Max is doing is at the very least - not sporting, and at worse downright dangerous for those around him.
When Verstappen was called to the stewards, the article he was accused of breaching allowed them to choose any punishment including disqualification. The stewards chose a ten second time penalty that did nothing to punish Verstappen for one of the most dangerous things a driver can do on a racetrack, on top of all the other dangerous things he did in that race.
The excuse of not being able to chose anything other than smaller mandated penalties doesn't apply here.
Soldato
I'm glad Hamilton won and I hope he wins the championship this weekend.
I'll admit on first viewing from Verstappen's onboard I thought that he just idled down the gears to let Hamilton pass, but seeing it again you can clearly hear the revs drop as he braked just before the hit. I'll say I don't think that Verstappen intended Hamilton to hit him (the most likely outcome there is Verstappen being turned into the wall), suggested by his attempt to turn back to the outside just as he braked - but he executed it badly. Both were as bad on the sportsmanship of trying to get the other to go through the detection zone first - any other time Hamilton would have grabbed the opportunity with both hands rather than fallen in behind, and him feigning confusion doesn't help his reputation either.
You can't do what Verstappen did and get off scot free though. He was only lucky that Bottas was far enough down the field squabbling with McLarens and Alpines to punish him further.
I've not too many problems with other aspects of Verstappen's driving. The first restart he tried to get back ahead of Hamilton off track and was demoted for the second restart (though the negotiations, which were a first for me, I didn't like) then the second restart was fine - Hamilton left a big gap and Verstappen went for it - I just don't think Ocon knew Verstappen was on the inside, hence not giving Hamilton more space.
The games at the detection point were hard but OK - I'm sure he would have been told to let Hamilton through properly in the end, but I've no issue with Verstappen trying to work it to his advantage at the time and I think any other drivers would have done the same in his position if they were switched on enough - both Alonso and Hamilton have done so in the past and been punished or told to give it back properly, and probably others too.
The biggest problem for me is that Masi seems to have lost control of the situation. Red Bull and Mercedes are putting him in a difficult position, but Charlie wouldn't have stood for this. He and his fellow members of the FIA need to bang some heads together before next weekend then get some rules written out in black and white for 2022 (eg if you let another driver through, you can't then overtake him for another full lap).
What's gone on this season, and especially the accusations and whinging from both camps needs to stop. Nobody is winning and it's giving all involved parties and brands a bad name. Not just Marko/Horner/Verstappen but Wolff/Hamilton have been as bad. Hamilton's games have been much more subtle, but in the last three races he could have had three drive through penalties for not keeping within 10 car lengths on formation laps (twice in Brazil, once yesterday) and Bottas's games behind the safety car (same rules apply - 10 car lengths) before the red flag wasn't even noted (hurt Norris particularly and might have stopped Verstappen pitting).
While highly unlikely, I hope the rules sufficiently shake things up next year that none of the teams nor drivers will be in the hunt for titles next year. 2021 has just been a bunch of children complaining to the teacher.
Edit: The red flag was fine. There was a hole in the barrier on a 160mph corner that has already had at least three sizeable accidents this weekend, two of which were in F1. More cars would have pit but I think, like many here, that they anticipated a red flag, so either split strategies (eg McLaren, Red Bull and Ferrari) or just stayed out.
I'll admit on first viewing from Verstappen's onboard I thought that he just idled down the gears to let Hamilton pass, but seeing it again you can clearly hear the revs drop as he braked just before the hit. I'll say I don't think that Verstappen intended Hamilton to hit him (the most likely outcome there is Verstappen being turned into the wall), suggested by his attempt to turn back to the outside just as he braked - but he executed it badly. Both were as bad on the sportsmanship of trying to get the other to go through the detection zone first - any other time Hamilton would have grabbed the opportunity with both hands rather than fallen in behind, and him feigning confusion doesn't help his reputation either.
You can't do what Verstappen did and get off scot free though. He was only lucky that Bottas was far enough down the field squabbling with McLarens and Alpines to punish him further.
I've not too many problems with other aspects of Verstappen's driving. The first restart he tried to get back ahead of Hamilton off track and was demoted for the second restart (though the negotiations, which were a first for me, I didn't like) then the second restart was fine - Hamilton left a big gap and Verstappen went for it - I just don't think Ocon knew Verstappen was on the inside, hence not giving Hamilton more space.
The games at the detection point were hard but OK - I'm sure he would have been told to let Hamilton through properly in the end, but I've no issue with Verstappen trying to work it to his advantage at the time and I think any other drivers would have done the same in his position if they were switched on enough - both Alonso and Hamilton have done so in the past and been punished or told to give it back properly, and probably others too.
The biggest problem for me is that Masi seems to have lost control of the situation. Red Bull and Mercedes are putting him in a difficult position, but Charlie wouldn't have stood for this. He and his fellow members of the FIA need to bang some heads together before next weekend then get some rules written out in black and white for 2022 (eg if you let another driver through, you can't then overtake him for another full lap).
What's gone on this season, and especially the accusations and whinging from both camps needs to stop. Nobody is winning and it's giving all involved parties and brands a bad name. Not just Marko/Horner/Verstappen but Wolff/Hamilton have been as bad. Hamilton's games have been much more subtle, but in the last three races he could have had three drive through penalties for not keeping within 10 car lengths on formation laps (twice in Brazil, once yesterday) and Bottas's games behind the safety car (same rules apply - 10 car lengths) before the red flag wasn't even noted (hurt Norris particularly and might have stopped Verstappen pitting).
While highly unlikely, I hope the rules sufficiently shake things up next year that none of the teams nor drivers will be in the hunt for titles next year. 2021 has just been a bunch of children complaining to the teacher.
Edit: The red flag was fine. There was a hole in the barrier on a 160mph corner that has already had at least three sizeable accidents this weekend, two of which were in F1. More cars would have pit but I think, like many here, that they anticipated a red flag, so either split strategies (eg McLaren, Red Bull and Ferrari) or just stayed out.
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Soldato
Anyone else noticed Alonso pitted for softs on lap 44, hoping to get fastest lap? Those 2007 demons still run deep 
Soldato
Soldato
I'm inclined to agree to some degree. However, I welcome the drama and competition for the title, as opposed to the bore fest that we've seen for so long before this season.
I really don't think they would, as such behaviour would reflect badly on their bosses, and the Mercedes brand would not tolerate it. The want to win for Mercedes being the best, not Mercedes being cheats.
With Red Bull, the people at the top don't care. They are happy to cheat their way to wins (they've done some pretty dodgy things in the past and got away with it). Verstappen is toxic because the whole team and Horner are toxic too, and the people above the team are toxic and happy to let it go on.
Yep, Max and Horner need to lose, even if it's just punishment for their behaviour this year. If I was Liberty, I wouldn't want my brand associated with cheating. Once that happens, fans and manufacturers will bail. No one likes an inherently unfair sport.
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Soldato
If so he would have done so right at the end, not 6 laps early.Anyone else noticed Alonso pitted for softs on lap 44, hoping to get fastest lap? Those 2007 demons still run deep
Alonso and Hamilton get along fine now apparently. Alonso's issues were with Dennis specifically after he latched onto Hamilton as he had Senna and Hakkinen.
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