Saving Sessions / Demand reduction thread

DarkBahamut said:
To be honest, on this point I don't even really agree with Octopus. I know people don't like the payout being slashed, but I think any suggestion the rates would stay at £2000-3000/MWh - or even really half that was a bit laughable. ESO were only paying that in the first place to drive engagement during the test period, there was never a suggestion they'd actually pay that once DFS went live. What did people really expect?

When the ESO announced a while back that they had more margin this winter you knew it was already game over for big DFS payouts. I'm sure if there's a real tight margin one day we might see a good rate, but I think it's crazy to suggest they'd pay any more than what they could turn a gas power station on for in time of higher demand. Never going to happen IMHO.
Click to expand...
That's why they had an auction tender system.

It's no good offering higher prices for he test runs and then slashing it for any live events in the future, it doesn't tell them anything and at 22p they have no idea how many people will take part.
 
200sols said:
That's why they had an auction tender system.

It's no good offering higher prices for he test runs and then slashing it for any live events in the future, it doesn't tell them anything and at 22p they have no idea how many people will take part.
Click to expand...

I agree but think its even worse than you explained.
When they did the auctions they requested a silly low amount of MWh. The amounts requested were below what Octopus alone had "supplied" at the fixed rate sessions so they were basically asking a load of suppliers to bid as low as they though they would need to go to secure the "win", a game which a load of the tiny suppliers played.

So it didn't give any real indication of how much could be "supplied" at any other demand point.
So fine if all your ever going to request is a small amount (hardly seems worth the bother then) when the supplier who did all the heavy lifting was Octopus and they didn't bid silly low.

If you asked Octopus today how many demand reduction mwh they could supply at 22p per unit (effectively people reducing and people who can exporting) I bet they would say "no idea, we don't have any data with which to make an educated guess"

Lets face it they don't cover themselves with glory nor outward competence.
The first year they used a silly equation which people cottoned on to and the second they did the bidding thing but for volumes around 1/10 that had been supplied previously.
 
Another email

Hello



Thank you for reaching out and sharing your thoughts about our Demand Flexibility Service (DFS) and the updates to the scheme. We’re grateful for your enthusiasm for demand flexibility and the role it plays in building a greener, more cost-efficient energy system.



As the National Energy System Operator (NESO) for Great Britain, our mission is to ensure the country has the energy it needs every second of every day and ensuring this is delivered in an affordable way for bill payers. Balancing supply and demand is a critical part of our role, and the support of customers like you makes a real difference in achieving this goal.



We’re delighted to confirm that demand flexibility remains a key focus for NESO and Ofgem and will now be evolving into a year-round service. This means we are able to harness the value of customers’ demand flexibility to help us balance supply and demand throughout the year.



In previous years, we have guaranteed prices to promote participation and learn about the service. Building on this knowledge and considering the energy supply and demand outlook this winter, we will compare demand flexibility prices to alternative actions and choose the lowest cost solution, driving value for all bill payers.



We’re confident that the DFS will continue to attract strong participation. Several providers are already preparing to offer the service as it launches this week, and we’re excited to see the impact it will have in the months ahead.



Thank you again for your interest and for playing an active role in shaping a greener, more flexible energy future. For more details about this year’s service and how to participate, please visit our website: https://www.neso.energy/industry-in...-service/demand-flexibility-service-explained



Many thanks



Rhiannon Walpole

Customer Experience Manager

Customer Directorate
Click to expand...
 
Check your emails peeps.


Saving Sessions - the energy saving scheme where we pay you to use less power - is back, but with a lower reward. Read more and tell us if you want to take part.
What's the deal with Saving Sessions this year?

[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]NESO has just relaunched the service behind Saving Sessions, but with some changes. There will be many more events but the rewards for each will typically be 10-25% of the previous value, but may be rather more on occasion.


We're continuing to work with NESO to increase the rates and we'll let you know if they do. Until then, we know lots of you will still be interested, just let us know if you want to take part below.
32.png
"
[/FONT]
 
We don’t have any spare battery capacity now we have the heat pump on so unless the reward is >40p/kwh, I doubt I’ll bother.

It wouldn’t be otherwise worth charging the battery at 25p to dump it back to the grid as I’m looking at 28p/kwh after round trip losses.
 
Ron-ski said:
I'll take part, but only if it doesn't inconvenience us, we won't be putting the effort in that we did last year.
Click to expand...

Thats pretty much my take so I have signed up.
At the end of that day that is so that I know what is going on and can decide to take part or not.

If the rate is ok I may go on grid that day and just empty batteries in the sessions. Otherwise maybe I wont bother.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
We don’t have any spare battery capacity now we have the heat pump on so unless the reward is >40p/kwh, I doubt I’ll bother.

It wouldn’t be otherwise worth charging the battery at 25p to dump it back to the grid as I’m looking at 28p/kwh after round trip losses.
Click to expand...

You do get the normal export as well.

So for me assuming I buy normal priced units they are 27p, so I am losing 12p per unit (ignoring losses as I would have them anyway using battery).
So I would be looking at 32p as an absolute minimum being 32p-12p=20p profit per kwh.

Simply couldn't be bother to mess around for anything less.

If they could give more sessions, like every day in the week and at the same times, like 5-7pm then I could be bothered for probably a bit less.
 
Make it that the reward would need to at lease cover my import costs then ;)

That will give me 10p profit after export payments. Even then, I’m not sure it’s really worth the bother.

Edit: it might make cosy a more compelling option over winter as I can import for 12p.
 
Last edited:
Anyone get the impression these are pretty much dead and buried now? Paying less or otherwise?

By this time last year there had already been several (tests?). A look tonight shows almost 40GW of demand and nearly 55% by gas power, yet nothing. It would have been a dead cert for one last year.
 
Probably a stalemate due to backlash, we don't wanna end up paying out of pocket to help them out and they don't want to cough up the dough for our help.

I would love it if some went live though to see just how many refuse to help.

I know they are rejecting a lot of bids left right and center though
 
Last edited:
High price doesn't necessarily mean there would be a risk to the grid though. Was far better as intended to be used when absolutely needed to ensure maximum participation rather than running more frequently for 40p. I gather there have been several sessions already which Octopus didn't take part in but Axle/Givenergy did.
 
Ron-ski said:
The price of Agile tonight shows just how expensive energy is currently, yet they still refuse to cut costs by paying us a reasonable amount to save on usage/export from our batteries.
Click to expand...
Tonight would have guaranteed one last year. Its cloudy, there's little wind and demand will be >45GW. Even now, the grid is almost 60% gas and there's no coal to fall back on as there was last year.

Unfortunately I suspect if there isn't one tonight or over the next few days then we'll never get one.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom