Saving Sessions / Demand reduction thread

Funny they ran all those auctions last year and for what? To ignore it all and lowball everyone for 20p... gotta remember us with batteries are a minority, can't imagine people sitting the dark for 20p..
 
Last edited:
Its a typical response from a party thats not really got the consumer interests at heart. Ofgem, literally not fit for purpose.
If they had they could do something similar most weekdays.

When you see the price the top generation bids at its basically utter profiteering.
The thing is they all benefit from it and one of the few who don't seem to what to do so is Octopus.

What really grinds my gears though isn't the price its the shortsightedness.
We WILL need this sort of thing in the future and are basically torpedoing it now.
V2G and reduced consumer demand in peak times are literally a part of the long term plan.
 
It says:

Hi,


As one of the customers who joined Saving Sessions last winter, I wanted to give you an update on it, and ask for your help.

Saving Sessions’ future is in jeopardy.

Tomorrow, the energy regulator Ofgem were set to decide:

- Whether the service should continue at all
- How much reward customers should receive for taking part

Moments ago, they rushed out their decision (a day ahead of schedule): approving a change that would reduce the reward you receive by ~90%.

Where previously, we typically paid you £2.25 per unit you saved, it would be more like 22p per unit instead.

This week, thousands of Saving Sessions customers have flooded Ofgem's inbox and social media to say they want a fair reward for helping make energy cheaper and greener.

Join us in telling Ofgem to think again.

Tell them on X (Twitter) – using @Ofgem, @neso_energy and #SaveTheDFS.


OR... email Ofgem directly to tell them how you feel about your Saving Sessions rewards.


This button should open up a new draft email for you, already populated with the right email address and a template answer to send (or of course, you're welcome to do it in your own words)!

If that doesn't work, email [email protected]
and copy in [email protected] with the subject line "Please save the Demand Flexibility Service."

Why might the Saving Sessions rewards change or end?

Saving Sessions is part of an initiative from the government owned “National Energy System Operator” (NESO): the Demand Flexibility Service. That means that NESO factor in your efforts when balancing the grid, and they give us (and all energy suppliers) the funding to reward you for taking part.

They’ve arrived at the lower reward because that’s the sort of amount they pay a gas plant to turn on to cover the busiest time of day (it does vary - as would future Saving Sessions rewards). But it’s not a fair comparison – they pay the gas plants a lot of money “just in case”, as well as the per-usage costs. There’s no proposal to do the same for customers.

Saving Sessions has proven that our energy system can be more self-sufficient, sustainable, and rewarding for citizens. It’s not the time to stamp all that progress out.

The UK energy system needs to invest in that future, instead of relying on more of the same imported fossil fuels that triggered a once-in-a-generation energy crisis just a few years ago.

We think Saving Sessions has been a massive success: saving a small gas-powered station’s worth of power each time the grid needed it, and hundreds of tonnes of carbon emissions.

Closer to home, it reduced your bills by £10 million over the past two winters, and raised £400,000 in donations for customers struggling with their bills, and not to mention potentially thousands more family board games played, books opened, dogs walked, hobbies picked up (and, lets be honest, pints downed).

We hope you loved Saving Sessions as much as we did. However you felt about it, we wanted to give you a chance to have your say.

Love and power,
Kieron @ Octopus Energy
(I run all this stuff for Octopus)

PS. While we won't be able to email every customer about this, we've seen some brilliant people trying to spread the word about this on social media. If you'd like to let your fellow customers know, we've blogged about it: Help us save Saving Sessions.
Click to expand...
 
Lets hope they enjoy the cuts due to demand whilst me with my whole home backup sits back and laughs.

Apparently they rushed out their decision day ahead of schedule approving a 90% reduction in reward, nobody is going to be signing up to help out anymore when reward is less than what people are actually bloody paying per kwh

They picked a fantastic time to do maintenance and shut down plants didn't they lol
 
Last edited:
the money is nice and if it is a choice of people sitting in the dark or having their tea late I get it not being an incentive at 22p

but for those of us with a battery who can choose to either charge the battery when the grid is clean or make sure we are not using the grid when it is dirty I think it is sad that some won't do it just because it is the right thing to do. does it always have to be about cash? :(
 
Last edited:
Currently I export what I have spare between 16:00 and 19:00, I always do that.

Last winter I changed my export model, I would export at maximum for 16:00 to 16:30 and 18:30 to 19:00. This avoided exporting at the most likely saving session time, and this lowering my potential rewards.

When a saving session was on, we'd cook/eat late, not watch TV and thus maximise export, it was worth the inconvenience. With the low rewards being talked about, I'm not going to make the effort, I'll just export as usual. I'd export as much as possible, even if it meant a flat battery, because I could use the grid for cheaper.

So I'll still be helping the grid, just not as much as last year.

@alphaomega16 the rewards are paid on top of your existing export rate. See first sentence above, I have 29 kWh battery charged at off peak, and I always export some on Flux peak.
 
Last edited:
bigmike20vt said:
the money is nice and if it is a choice of people sitting in the dark or having their tea late I get it not being an incentive at 22p

but for those of us with a battery who can choose to either charge the battery when the grid is clean or make sure we are not using the grid when it is dirty I think it is sad that some won't do it just because it is the right thing to do. does it always have to be about cash? :(
Click to expand...
Well I don't see many people paying more to help out the grid than the already high prices and them shutting down plants, its called saving session for a reason but they want to turn it into a "Pay more on your bills for helping us out" thing for battery users.

Was nice helping out when needed but not going to pay for the privilege, that wasn't why I got solar and battery in the first place, it was to save money not help bail them out at high times whilst paying for it with the amount of profits they make year after year charging as much as they can.

Ron-ski said:
@alphaomega16 the rewards are paid on top of your existing export rate.
Click to expand...

Given conversion losses still not worth it for stress on system and it would consume at least half my battery, ill keep the charge for myself.
 
Last edited:
bigmike20vt said:
the money is nice and if it is a choice of people sitting in the dark or having their tea late I get it not being an incentive at 22p

but for those of us with a battery who can choose to either charge the battery when the grid is clean or make sure we are not using the grid when it is dirty I think it is sad that some won't do it just because it is the right thing to do. does it always have to be about cash? :(
Click to expand...
Because I'm not a charity.. ;) :p

Seriously though, if there hasn't been much solar I need the battery to get through until the cheap slots the following morning after midnight, I'm not going to force export for 22p+15p and then import at 26p. If the battery needs topping up pre session then last year I'd just top up from the grid before the session but that won't work now as the sums don't add up when you factor in losses. These things were meant to be emergencies, for when the grid was looking unable to cope, these changes would make no sense as it actively disincentivises the reason for taking part... I.e a bit of cash.
 
Last edited:
Response

Hello

Thank you for contacting Ofgem.

On 21 November 2024, we approved proposals by the National Energy System Operator (NESO) to operate Demand Flexibility Service (DFS) as a year-round service. NESO operate the DFS by procuring participation from suppliers and electricity aggregators. The service helps balance supply and demand on the electricity grid efficiently and economically by encouraging flexible energy use by consumers.

As a consumer, as long as you have a working smart meter, you should now be able to sign up for the service with your supplier or third-party aggregator if they are offering the service. NESO will be able to provide you with additional information on the service.

We’ll be working closely with NESO, consumers, the energy sector and Government, to understand the lessons the DFS teaches us about flexible energy use and how both consumers and our electricity grid can benefit from it now and in the longer term.

Kind regards

Francis
(He/Him)
Consumer Affairs
Ofgem
Commonwealth House
3rd Floor
32 Albion Street
Glasgow
G1 1LH
Click to expand...
 
200sols said:
Because I'm not a charity.. ;) :p

Seriously though, if there hasn't been much solar I need the battery to get through until the cheap slots the following morning after midnight, I'm not going to force export for 22p+15p and then import at 26p. If the battery needs topping up pre session then last year I'd just top up from the grid before the session but that won't work now as the sums don't add up when you factor in losses. These things were meant to be emergencies, for when the grid was looking unable to cope, these changes would make no sense as it actively disincentivises the reason for taking part... I.e a bit of cash.
Click to expand...
This is exactly my situation too. On a day with no solar when these usually occur, its quite likely I'd be exporting at 22p+15p, only to then have to import later at 24.67p. Not to mention I'd likely have paid for those units in the first place when I charged the battery off-peak so that 37p per unit is actually 31p, then losses on top too.

Very few are going to take part in this.
 
alphaomega16 said:
Given conversion losses still not worth it for stress on system and it would consume at least half my battery, ill keep the charge for myself.
Click to expand...
.
My batteries are supposedly good for 6000 cycles, that's 16 years at one cycle a day, and the rest of the system is well up to the job, so no stress for me. I'll just carry on exporting my usual amount.
 
To be honest, on this point I don't even really agree with Octopus. I know people don't like the payout being slashed, but I think any suggestion the rates would stay at £2000-3000/MWh - or even really half that was a bit laughable. ESO were only paying that in the first place to drive engagement during the test period, there was never a suggestion they'd actually pay that once DFS went live. What did people really expect?

When the ESO announced a while back that they had more margin this winter you knew it was already game over for big DFS payouts. I'm sure if there's a real tight margin one day we might see a good rate, but I think it's crazy to suggest they'd pay any more than what they could turn a gas power station on for in time of higher demand. Never going to happen IMHO.
 
DarkBahamut said:
To be honest, on this point I don't even really agree with Octopus. I know people don't like the payout being slashed, but I think any suggestion the rates would stay at £2000-3000/MWh - or even really half that was a bit laughable. ESO were only paying that in the first place to drive engagement during the test period, there was never a suggestion they'd actually pay that once DFS went live. What did people really expect?

When the ESO announced a while back that they had more margin this winter you knew it was already game over for big DFS payouts. I'm sure if there's a real tight margin one day we might see a good rate, but I think it's crazy to suggest they'd pay any more than what they could turn a gas power station on for in time of higher demand. Never going to happen IMHO.
Click to expand...

Way to go to explain you don't know how the market works.

"In each half-hour trading period, the marginal cost of the last generating unit used to meet demand sets the price that the buyers (energy suppliers or traders) pay to the sellers (energy generators or traders) – known as a 'pay as you clear' model."

Guess how much that last little bit of grossly overpriced generation charges and hence how much everyone who generates gets?
Yep its well over, in fact its multiples of the amount we got.

So what happens is they call more and more of the generation thats available as demand goes up, and everyone gets that amount. I have seen numbers like £7.5k per mwh for stuff like large diesel generators mentioned previously.
As our spare capacity goes down and we run more risk of hitting max generation (or more) being required those happy to bid silly high for supply will be used more and more.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom