Second hand car engine failure after 3 months

[HummuH1]

Bit OT, but this will be an interesting one.

Holes in pistons are not that common. In this case, the hole in the piston isn't really the problem (although clearly it is a massive problem!), it's more likely the end result of another issue. My money would be on a fault with ignition and/or fueling mix although there could be other possible causes.

Also worth asking as it may be relevant, but has any work been done to the car since you bought it?

 

[Linkex]

The garage that looked at the car suspect head gasket failure is the actual cause, but they said that was a best guess rather than a diagnoses. Also of note, he mentioned that the bolts on the engine do not appear to be original, suggesting a head gasket replacement at some point prior. The car is at 55k.

No work has been carried out since purchase.

 

[Haggisman]

The garage that looked at the car suspect head gasket failure is the actual cause, but they said that was a best guess rather than a diagnoses. Also of note, he mentioned that the bolts on the engine do not appear to be original, suggesting a head gasket replacement at some point prior. The car is at 55k.

No work has been carried out since purchase.

Well, it is a Rover

The only points the dealer might try to catch you out on are:

A) the garage you took it to have damaged it and are trying to cover their own rears

B) You/your wife have ragged the **** out of it and that's why it's broken.

 

[Linkex]

B) You/your wife have ragged the **** out of it and that's why it's broken.

Did I mention its a rover?

 

[HummuH1]

The garage that looked at the car suspect head gasket failure is the actual cause, but they said that was a best guess rather than a diagnoses. Also of note, he mentioned that the bolts on the engine do not appear to be original, suggesting a head gasket replacement at some point prior. The car is at 55k.

No work has been carried out since purchase.

I'm no expert, but I've never heard of a leaky/blown head gasket causing a hole in a piston. It's usually a detonation issue i.e. an unexpected explosion blowing a hole through the piston.

Exactly where the hole is in the piston can point towards the issue also. Most holes appear on the exhaust side as that tends to run at a higher temp than the intake side.

Only reason I know anything about this is because I suffered the same thing years ago and it was down to the timing being too advanced for the fuel that was being used. The following document (pages 40 and 41) explains what are the likely causes of various types of piston failure: http://www.boosttown.com/engine/piston_damage.pdf

Like I say, a bit OT but quite interesting if you're into that sort of malarky.

EDIT: coming to think of it, blown HG could cause general overheating, which could potentially also be a cause.

 

[Linkex]

I'm likewise no expert, so I'm just going on what the garage told me at this stage, which to be fair he made clear was his best guess.

I think I need to stop second guessing here anyway. From my perspective, the car went bang within 6 months. If the dealer can prove it was due to a fault developed after the purchase, then fine. If not, they are fixing/replacing/refunding it.

 

[Housey]

Bare in mind also that your RAC man will also have his 'local mechanic' who will be paying him a back hander on reccomendations and work he points towards him no doubt. I'd park what you've been told and just deal with the garage who is going to be presented with the challenge of putting it right.

 

[Linkex]

When I say recommended by the RAC man, I actually meant RAC approved garage, but I take your point.

 

[leigh_boy]

i would put money, on accidentally dropping down to many gears and the valves in the head hit the piston or the retainer on a valve has warn out and fallen in to the piston.

 

[Trig]

I'm no expert, but I've never heard of a leaky/blown head gasket causing a hole in a piston

Anything that changes the ratio of fuel air in an engine can cause a hole so its possible.

Its a Rover, headgaskets should come with the jack and wheel brace..

 

[Rilot]

Its a Rover, headgaskets should come with the jack and wheel brace..

Not all Rover engines have head gasket issues.
What engine is it? The 2.5 V6 is a good, solid lump. The 1.8T is erm....a time bomb.

 

[leigh_boy]

2.5 v6 is a bmw engine i think and can be found in the mg and landrover freelander

 

[Janesy B]

2.5 v6 is a bmw engine i think and can be found in the mg and landrover freelander

No it's not, it's a KV6 engine. BMW didn't even make a V6 engine. Please refrain from propagating owner's club rubbish across the interwebs.

 

[Rybo89]

I haven't got a clue who's right. ^^^ but that is funny.

 

[K.C. Leblanc]

No it's not, it's a KV6 engine. BMW didn't even make a V6 engine. Please refrain from propagating owner's club rubbish across the interwebs.

It's surely not a good sign that the owners club don't trust their beloved marque to make an engine.

 

[Linkex]

Its a 1.8. K series according to the garage. He said they are known for head gasket issues

 

[acemastr]

Pistons DO suddenly develop a hole don't they? when the conditions are right (wrong fuel mix etc..) It isn't really a gradual thing

 

[Janesy B]

It's surely not a good sign that the owners club don't trust their beloved marque to make an engine.

No they just say that kind of stuff because they are in denial, even the salesperson at SMC Uxbridge told my father's friend that the ZS180 he was picking up had a Honda V6. I have no idea why they say these kind of things.

 

[[TW]Fox]

2.5 v6 is a bmw engine i think and can be found in the mg and landrover freelander

I love BMW V6 engines.

 

[Matt82]

Yup.

Yes, if it is going to cost them a lot of money, then even the biggest dealers will try to deny knowledge of the law. Or maybe they are just ignorant of it.

Firstly I'll say that Housey and Haggisman have already provided some very good information. And I would recommend that the OP follows their advice first, before getting to caught up in going down the 'legal' route.


Assuming situation like the OP (ie fault in first 6 months, when bought from a dealer).

In my experience they may well attempt to 'prove' that they did not know of a fault when they sold you the car. They may well provide documents to show that the car was put through a variety of tests and that no fault was found. They may even state that these tests are all done as part of what ever regulations they are required to follow.

All of this is (mostly) irrelevant. They need to be able to prove that the fault didn't exist (at time of sale) - not that they didn't know about the fault.

To the best of my knowledge, in a circumstance such as the OP, the fault is still deemed to have been present (at time of sale), even if symptoms only show in the weeks/months after driving the car, unless the garage can prove otherwise.

Basically they may attempt to 'prove' their case - but you need to make sure that they are providing relevant proof (something that is usually very hard to do). And not just providing proof that they had carried out all of the relevant pre-sale checks - as this is not the same thing.

Yes, with my most recent car purchase just over a month ago in fact.

Mazda 6, noticed it had an engine rattle at low RPM when warmed up.

Dealer was fully cooperative throughout.

It turned out to be a cheap & simple fix (aux belt pulley), but he said they would have refunded if it was something major - e.g. engine rebuild.

There are some decent dealers out there, so as already suggested, speak to them normally and see what they say, don't go all legal on them straight off the bat, because that will immediately put them on the defensive. If they start to be difficult/evasive about it, then you can start quoting SOGA etc.

Terrific, popcorn at the ready