Sennheiser HD650 - The classic beauty in a grey dress Appreciation thread!

NirK said:
You can talk about resolving low level details etc. but then you could say try playing a <50hz bass tone on the HD650, the HD650 have almost no bass below about 50hz, which is fine if you listen to acoustic music or vocals etc. but if you like electronic music or bass in games etc. then the HD650 are very lacking sub bass, they have good bass for open headphones, but still no sub bass compared to 1540, Denon Dxxxx or various other headphones.

If you go to this page :

http://plasticity.szynalski.com/tone-generator.htm

Drag the bar down, how far do the HD650 go before they are inaudible? The 1540 will happily go down to 20hz
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Ive just seen this but something was very wrong with your setup if you came away thinking the 650's have nothing to give below 50hz. They only really start rolling off below 30hz. i will try that test later when im at home but i guarantee you it's well below 30hz before i cant hear it.
 
Mine start to roll off gently are 40hz and I can hear them down to 30 and softly at 20 so technically they have plenty of sub bass extension for an open headphone. Almost every headphone has a bass roll off to some degree. A planar for example, has to have very large drivers to achieve down to the depths bass while closed headphones can achieve it just on design although it's still difficult to get right.

What the 650 does really well at is impact, it has good weight and slam to it's bass. It does have higher distortion like the HD800S to make the bass sound full but it's done correctly without sounding sloppy. I currently use the M8100 tube which has a nice full bass and fantastic mids, just wished the treble on the M8100 was as clean and articulate as the M8161.
 
You know what's better than the 650's?



Having two...

13173827_10208979452620789_3096575108573617252_n.jpg

Why did I do this? LOL anyone wanna buy a brand new pair?
 
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james.miller said:
Ive just seen this but something was very wrong with your setup if you came away thinking the 650's have nothing to give below 50hz. They only really start rolling off below 30hz. i will try that test later when im at home but i guarantee you it's well below 30hz before i cant hear it.
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Well I cannot remember the exact HZ, I do not have them anymore, but basically yes the 650 have little sub bass. For open headphones they have decent bass depth and ok impact, compared to good closed headphones or planar they have no sub bass. Compared to for example 1540, Dxxx, HE400, LCD2 etc etc.

For some types of music I definately prefer the HD650, but overall for 1 pair of all round headphones, I prefer the 1540, ideally you would have more than 1 pair for different genres etc.

BTW I am not talking about still being able to "hear" bass, I can "hear" single digit hz on the 1540, but I mean how low they go at a similar volume to the midrange or treble, on the specs they measure this as xx hz -3db, which means the bass at that frequency is 3db lower than 1000hz, I think it is 1000hz I cannot remember, but yes you get the point.
 
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When people have tried my setups the first they say is why is your HD650 so fast? I always say the same thing, because I match it right. It always comes down to the DAC...have a fast resolving dac and feed a decent amp to your 650's they will beat any planar not named HE1000, Abyss, LCD-4 in terms of speed and impact and resolution.



Yeah the HE-400 and LCD-2 has amazing sub bass, prob the best I've heard I just wish Audeze had less blurred backgrounds and better at resolving small details and most of all good QC. I do love the LCD-2's though but that price needs to come down a lot.
 
I would be interested to hear the amp / dac that make the HD650 sound as fast as those other headphones, and also not sure about the impact part, but yes I am not saying you are making that up, but I would be interested to hear if it really makes that much difference, or maybe you just hear things differently I don't know. Resolution is probably true, except the HD650 maybe does not sound as detailed due to having less obvious / bright treble, speed and impact I am not sure, maybe you are right though I have not tried it so I don't know, but on a normal set up like an integrated amp or Xonar STX etc. they do not have the impact or speed of other headphones. I would definitely like to try the HD650 again with a powerful amp etc. but If you include a big amp with the HD650 the value aspect goes out of the window lol.
 
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Ryanr1987 said:
When people have tried my setups the first they say is why is your HD650 so fast? I always say the same thing, because I match it right. It always comes down to the DAC...have a fast resolving dac and feed a decent amp to your 650's they will beat any planar not named HE1000, Abyss, LCD-4 in terms of speed and impact and resolution.



Yeah the HE-400 and LCD-2 has amazing sub bass, prob the best I've heard I just wish Audeze had less blurred backgrounds and better at resolving small details and most of all good QC. I do love the LCD-2's though but that price needs to come down a lot.
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$699 + $89 shipping atm from the us :(
 
NirK said:
I would be interested to hear the amp / dac that make the HD650 sound as fast as those other headphones, and also not sure about the impact part, but yes I am not saying you are making that up, but I would be interested to hear if it really makes that much difference, or maybe you just hear things differently I don't know. Resolution is probably true, except the HD650 maybe does not sound as detailed due to having less obvious / bright treble, speed and impact I am not sure, maybe you are right though I have not tried it so I don't know, but on a normal set up like an integrated amp or Xonar STX etc. they do not have the impact or speed of other headphones. I would definitely like to try the HD650 again with a powerful amp etc. but If you include a big amp with the HD650 the value aspect goes out of the window lol.
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I've found rolling op amps made a huge difference to the sound from my HD600s - some setups could produce very fast, punchy sound while others were more laid back.
 
The HD650 doesn't really roll off bad it's more like a gentle slope rather than a deep dive. I think the markets plagued with boosted highs that headphones like the 650 get called dark when they are actually more natural IMHO.

The resolution I mention is like a high quality TV. It doesn't boost anything and it gives you everything you expect from a well made screen - think pixels. Headphones like the Beyerdynamic T1 for example are not particularly resolving and boost the treble and upper mids to appear more detailed, sharp..think a mid ranged TV trying to be high end at a ridiculous price - everything is sharper to appear like you are getting that extra detail when you are really getting an in your face presentation that stands out.

The 650 I get parts of the music that are missed in most headphones because they are high end quality drivers. With the LCD-2 I get good resolution and a slightly elevated treble but I don't get subtle cues like I would with the 650 because the LCD-2's driver is more veiled and less resolving and no amount of boosting will get me those subtle cues, I will just get the same but over sharpens.

The HD800 is basically a high quality amazing driver but it's also enhanced. I've got tracks on my computer that I know to to core and the 650 gives you everything in the recording while so many headphones will exaggerate or smooth over. One thing that has surprised me is how many recordings have a roll off in the treble. If any of you 650's want to do an experiment I can send you two tracks that are polar opposites and your 650(if your equipment is resolving because the 650 is s chemleon) Will sound harsh and bright on one and dull and slow on the other, that's accuracy.

Does that makes sense?
 
I did not know the LCD2 had elevated treble, I was under the impression the non fazor LCD 2.2 was dark and that the newer fazor LCD2 are a bit brighter.

Apparently the new HD800 S has reduced treble and more bass, looks interesting but wow too much. The color scheme on those looks great though. Best looking headphones award :

500x1000px-LL-1bb8a9c6_Sennheiser-HD800S-with-HDVD800_DSC04837.jpeg
 
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LCD's have always had a rough treble but it was lower in level but the newer LCD-2's have a treble elevation. I confirmed this on my reference tracks and found it to enhanced those ranges. It was pretty flat from bass to upper mids though kind of like the K612 pro but less brittle.

Yeah 800S are stunning, I'm going to give them a whirl soon when I make time.
 
Ryanr1987 said:
LCD's have always had a rough treble but it was lower in level but the newer LCD-2's have a treble elevation. I confirmed this on my reference tracks and found it to enhanced those ranges. It was pretty flat from bass to upper mids though kind of like the K612 pro but less brittle.

Yeah 800S are stunning, I'm going to give them a whirl soon when I make time.
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Not heard many people saying the LCD2 were rough or harsh, have you tried the HIFIMAN HE560 or 400i? Reports of small soundstage put me off the HE400i, but apparently the 560 are better for that I don't know, also what about the EL8?
 
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Ryan can you please say why so many people say the Hd600 are better than the HD650 and why you rate the 650 over the 600 ?

Who is right the 600 camp or the 650 camp what's going on
 
no one is right it's a subjective hobby there are clear differences between the two the only way to truly know which one (if Either) you will like is to try them.

People say the 650 is darker ore more "veiled" You'd have to listen to it. The 650 Camp is equally as large as the 600 camp but in my experience over the past year or so it would seem the 600 camp are more up for an argument about it. Plus In america the 600/650 price gap is pretty big (more than $100 right now) over here it's barely £15 cheaper than the 650.
 
C64 said:
Ryan can you please say why so many people say the Hd600 are better than the HD650 and why you rate the 650 over the 600 ?

Who is right the 600 camp or the 650 camp what's going on
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I believe it's because people are used to a sound that boosts the higher ranges with a lack of bass. How many people call a headphone that rolls off below and boosted in the treble neutral? Lots. The 650 doesn't hide things like imperfected bass in a recordings but the 600 does to a degree. I have a track that is recorded to be a bit muddy, the 650 will show that muddy recording while my K702 will thin it out and won't show as much imperfections.


So I think it comes down to people not being used to accuracy.. they need that boosted treble and subtle bass because they think it's neutral when in reality it's altering the recording. The 650 doesn't really boost anything apart from the mid bass a bit, but I think that's needed.

I think the 650 is a more controlled driver, smoother more resolving than the drivers found in the HD600. Don't get me wrong the HD600 is very good, I just think the 650 is a more refined 600 without that "Audiophile Tuning"

There's too many opinions in audio so it's difficult to find out what's what, Id either find someone you trust or go by your own ears because it will drive you crazy reading so much. Take headfi and r/headphones with a grain of salt IMO
 
Ryanr1987 said:
There's too many opinions in audio so it's difficult to find out what's what, Id either find someone you trust or go by your own ears
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True,

Sound signature is subjective

I hated the 598...Harsh and trebly...some people love em...

I have Denon D2000 love these phones and some don't :p

Also have HD 650....The HD 650 is the better phone but doesn't make my Denon D2000 redundant...

The 650 is a phone with control at the party

The D2000 is a phone with a fun "dancey" atmosphere :p
 
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