Seymour Hersh, Nordstream pipeline, Substack

GIBURROWS said:
Christ, a lot of emotional panic attacks in here isn't there.

To not believe or trust the media doesn't make anyone pro Russia(or Hitler as that's next from the loons) but it's all very convenient for the yanks.....
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Not really. They don’t actually gain a lot by putting a pipe already not running out of action for however many months it would take to fix. They would stand to lose far, far more. Which is not a gamble I’d associate with Biden.
 
esmozz said:
I personally believe the U.S. probably did it too. It’s worth pointing out that it’s possible to believe that and not be supportive of Russia in any way shape or form. I think people sometimes miss that.
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True but when a person also posts pro Putin remarks in other threads, do you think that means they approve of his actions or not?
 
Efour said:
I think calling the president of the USA a liar is a bit far fetched. He just delivered what he promised. .....

Usually it's the lies that upset people:p

Simplest answer is usually right
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People keep saying that but he was talking about nord stream 2. Which he did via sanctions. Full invasion sealed the deal and even the Germans refused it.
Ns 1, which had been stopped by Russia, had both its pipes blown. Ns 2 had one of its pair. Funny how it was left still available to pump gas to Europe!

So as you say, the simplest answer is usually the correct one. Russia popped it in an attempt to force the use of ns2
 
Zatoichi.uK said:
Apply that same logic to Russia doing it. There is even less evidence and no motive. Why would Russia damage their own infrastructure rather than simply limit supply further?
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One reason is to damage the supply, causing prices to increase and therefore making people want to stop supporting Ukraine so that prices will fall. It's not the only pipe Russia have.
 
Washout said:
People keep saying that but he was talking about nord stream 2. Which he did via sanctions. Full invasion sealed the deal and even the Germans refused it.
Ns 1, which had been stopped by Russia, had both its pipes blown. Ns 2 had one of its pair. Funny how it was left still available to pump gas to Europe!

So as you say, the simplest answer is usually the correct one. Russia popped it in an attempt to force the use of ns2
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You're conversing with people who don't like details. Never mind that he was on about the other pipe, it doesn't fit the argument.
 
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I think its a fascinating topic and hopefully when the investigation is done the truth will be told. If it's the right truth and fits the narrative of XXX people. :P

I wonder how the world would be now if trump got a second term?

Are we actually gonna see ww3 in my lifetime. Should I cash out everything now and live like a lunatic before Chinese jackboots are matching down the Champs Elysées?
 
Efour said:
I think its a fascinating topic and hopefully when the investigation is done the truth will be told. If it's the right truth and fits the narrative of XXX people. :P

I wonder how the world would be now if trump got a second term?

Are we actually gonna see ww3 in my lifetime. Should I cash out everything now and live like a lunatic before Chinese jackboots are matching down the Champs Elysées?
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Porn people, vin diesel people?
 
Zatoichi.uK said:
It's strategically advantageous for them, they have the means, the incentive and have said they plan on doing so.
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I agree with all of that, but I still don't see any evidence that the US was responsible.

Zatoichi.uK said:
What exactly is the evidence it was carried out by Russia and for what purpose would this have been? I'm open to being persuaded but it seems a little open and shut.
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I have never suggested that it was carried out by Russia. We don't have enough evidence to be sure who it was.

Efour said:
I wonder how the world would be now if trump got a second term?
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Even worse.

Efour said:
Are we actually gonna see ww3 in my lifetime.
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No.
 
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Zatoichi.uK said:
Apply that same logic to Russia doing it. There is even less evidence and no motive. Why would Russia damage their own infrastructure rather than simply limit supply further?
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Hilarious that the 5 digit crew doesn't apply the same standard to their conspiracy theories

All the circumstantial evidence points directly to the US
 
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mid_gen said:
There are no facts to be acknowledged, only theories lacking any evidence.

You do very much behave as a pro-Russian actor by trying to misrepresent theory as fact.
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You're calling members of a computer enthusiast forum that are discussing a political issue a "Pro Russian actor". Just like the US government that asked Twitter to ban a list of "Russian bot accounts", but it turned out they were really just Trump supporters

I think you've watched too much CNN, get a grip
 
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Zatoichi.uK said:
I'm not particularly invested in the idea that it was conducted by the US but it seems to have been a long term goal as outlined by Condaleezza Rice. It's strategically advantageous for them, they have the means, the incentive and have said they plan on doing so.

What exactly is the evidence it was carried out by Russia and for what purpose would this have been? I'm open to being persuaded but it seems a little open and shut.
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There is no evidence or at least very little all there is is balance of probabilities. The pictures of the ruptured pipeline show it exploded from the inside that means something was sent down the pipe almost certainly a maintenance drone with explosives attached and that means it has to have been sent from either end of the pipe one of which is Russia. Who has reason to sever the pipeline? Well the germans don't want the gas anymore but theres still maintenance and other costs involved so someone decided the pipeline wasn't going to be used and wanted it put out of action permanently. Its also interesting it happened near the danish island of bornholm where a north south pipeline from norway to poland passes and it could be someone wanting to make a point we can take out one pipeline so we can take out another, it could have been blown up anywhere but they chose there. Why would the germans or the americans blow it up? To what end? It makes no sense the balance suggests Russia they have the most motive to make the point but you're right its not evidence. There also the matter of other pipelines over the caucasus they've blown up when politically expedient but thats another story.
 
tang0 said:
You're calling members of a computer enthusiast forum that are discussing a political issue a "Pro Russian actor". Just like the US government that asked Twitter to ban a list of "Russian bot accounts", but it turned out they were really just Trump supporters

I think you've watched too much CNN, get a grip
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And you've watched too much Tucker, Russia's favorite cable news host.

Honestly who cares who blew it up? Does it matter? Russia made its bed when it invaded Ukraine. Until it leaves and returns to 2014 borders those pipelines are redundant, hopefully they'll remain redundant even if they are driven out of Ukraine.
 
Blackjack Davy said:
There is no evidence or at least very little all there is is balance of probabilities. The pictures of the ruptured pipeline show it exploded from the inside that means something was sent down the pipe almost certainly a maintenance drone with explosives attached and that means it has to have been sent from either end of the pipe one of which is Russia. Who has reason to sever the pipeline? Well the germans don't want the gas anymore but theres still maintenance and other costs involved so someone decided the pipeline wasn't going to be used and wanted it put out of action permanently. Its also interesting it happened near the danish island of bornholm where a north south pipeline from norway to poland passes and it could be someone wanting to make a point we can take out one pipeline so we can take out another, it could have been blown up anywhere but they chose there. Why would the germans or the americans blow it up? To what end? It makes no sense the balance suggests Russia they have the most motive to make the point but you're right its not evidence. There also the matter of other pipelines over the caucasus they've blown up when politically expedient but thats another story.
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The US does not want NS2 because it would reduce the US's ability to sell its own gas to Europe and increase Russia's influence in Europe. The US is trying to protect its own interests and maintain its dominance
 
tang0 said:
The US does not want NS2 because it would reduce the US's ability to sell its own gas to Europe and increase Russia's influence in Europe. The US is trying to protect its own interests and maintain its dominance
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No the US wanted to stop NS2 because it thought Germany being so reliant on Russian energy was a very bad idea, your man Trump was also very outspoken on this. And for once Trump was actually right. Germany thought having close trade ties with Russia would prevent hostilities, you can see why they thought this as its worked very well in Europe which has been peaceful and thrived economically since WW2.

The problem is that Putin is a bad faith actor, his main interest was not in preventing hostilities, his main interest is in the countries Russia can keep under its boot. As more and more countries saw the benefits of moving politically towards the West with its freedom and prosperity he and his lunatics became more determined to stop the rot as they perceived it. Ukraine wanted to move towards the EU because the other countries that have joined have thrived. They wanted to move towards NATO because those that have joined have thrived and felt safe. So Russia invaded. The Belarusian population wanted to move towards the EU and Putin sent in the troops to back its dictator that is in his pocket.

So no it isn't about US dominance, its about energy security and Germany ****** up trusting Putin. Its a mistake they have finally learned from.
 
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Zatoichi.uK said:
Apply that same logic to Russia doing it. There is even less evidence and no motive. Why would Russia damage their own infrastructure rather than simply limit supply further?
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The pipeline was dead. Germany was no longer going to purchase gas from Russia through it. Germany announced it was dead, they had written off the cost of building it.

So it was scrap metal, why not blow it up and blame it on the West to cause political division? Russia has a long history of causing political division, it does it because it works. People are no arguing whether the US blew up a scrap metal tube, like it matters, its scrap.
 
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