Man of Honour
Now that sounds just like a Labour politician the other evening on Newsnight.
Shadow Immigration Secretary arrested under Official Secrets Act
- Thread starter Indy500
- Start date
Now that sounds just like a Labour politician the other evening on Newsnight.
Just because someone refutes allegations doesn't mean they are lying, funnily enough.
I don't honestly understand the furore over this. The police have acted on their own initiative - should politicians be exempt from obeying the law and being investigated if there is evidence they've broken it?
Let's take those allegations one by one, for kicks and giggles.
1. Gordon Brown is unelected
Untrue, he is an elected MP.
It is true that people didn't vote for him as prime minister, but then our parliamentary system doesn't require that. Just as John Major became Tory leader and prime minister when Thatcher resigned in 1990.
2. Accuses political opponents of undermining the economy
Yes he did, and he was correct. The Tory shadow chancellor broke the unspoken rule that shadow ministers never talk down the economy or the pound because of the effect it can have on the markets and on confidence.
3. Arrests opposition politicians
Untrue. Unless someone has evidence to the contrary.
4. Blames wrecked economy on foreign countries
Firstly our economy is not wrecked. If you want to see a wrecked economy go to Zimbabwe where inflation is millions of percent, and money isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Secondly, there IS a global financial crisis - it isn't just affecting Britain. Much of the developed world is also in recession. The idea that this is just Labour's doing is silly.
5. Economic plan: print more money, nationalisation
No he isn't printing more money. We will be borrowing it from the markets by issuing bonds. Yes we have 'nationalised' Northern Rock etc - the alternative being letting it go bust and seeing all its customers lose their money, and the likely devastating knock-on effect that would have on confidence. Their actions have been copied by governments elsewhere in Europe and in the USA. Again the idea this is just something a socialist Labour government is doing is nonsense.
1. Gordon Brown is unelected
Untrue, he is an elected MP.
It is true that people didn't vote for him as prime minister, but then our parliamentary system doesn't require that. Just as John Major became Tory leader and prime minister when Thatcher resigned in 1990.
2. Accuses political opponents of undermining the economy
Yes he did, and he was correct. The Tory shadow chancellor broke the unspoken rule that shadow ministers never talk down the economy or the pound because of the effect it can have on the markets and on confidence.
3. Arrests opposition politicians
Untrue. Unless someone has evidence to the contrary.
4. Blames wrecked economy on foreign countries
Firstly our economy is not wrecked. If you want to see a wrecked economy go to Zimbabwe where inflation is millions of percent, and money isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Secondly, there IS a global financial crisis - it isn't just affecting Britain. Much of the developed world is also in recession. The idea that this is just Labour's doing is silly.
5. Economic plan: print more money, nationalisation
No he isn't printing more money. We will be borrowing it from the markets by issuing bonds. Yes we have 'nationalised' Northern Rock etc - the alternative being letting it go bust and seeing all its customers lose their money, and the likely devastating knock-on effect that would have on confidence. Their actions have been copied by governments elsewhere in Europe and in the USA. Again the idea this is just something a socialist Labour government is doing is nonsense.
Your talking my language. My thoughts exactly.
Soldato
He was infamous for it. Quick, someone call the Met!
Man of Honour
Nothing changes, Gordo is still infamous.......
Wonder where you got that idea from?
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12870581&postcount=26
Man of Honour
Wonder where you got that idea from?
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12870581&postcount=26
Time to call those copyright lawyers.
Mine's much betterWonder where you got that idea from?
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12870581&postcount=26
Associate
Some great comments from the former head of the Flying Squad on the BBC News site:
Poor Gordon ... how sad ... never mind
Poor Gordon ... how sad ... never mind
Why would the government be incompetent by not knowing details of an ongoing police operation?
What is John O'Connor advocating here, that the police get permission from the government before they investigate politicians? That would mean he advocates political interference in police matters and/or that he thinks politicians are a special case when it comes to breaking the law, which they aren't.
I don't know what his political affiliations are but his comments seem bizarre to me.
I am disappointed that the Tories, the self-styled party of law and order, are bleating about having one of their politicians investigated for a serious breach of the law. I suppose if Damian Green is guilty it will make them look bad so they are trying to turn it around and blame Labour, and hope people will be fooled.
What is John O'Connor advocating here, that the police get permission from the government before they investigate politicians? That would mean he advocates political interference in police matters and/or that he thinks politicians are a special case when it comes to breaking the law, which they aren't.
I don't know what his political affiliations are but his comments seem bizarre to me.
I am disappointed that the Tories, the self-styled party of law and order, are bleating about having one of their politicians investigated for a serious breach of the law. I suppose if Damian Green is guilty it will make them look bad so they are trying to turn it around and blame Labour, and hope people will be fooled.
A police operation in Parliament itself and the government are unaware of it? I find that somewhat hard to believe. At the very least the Speaker will have known to allow the police to search a parliamentary office. On the plus side at least they didn't try to arrest him in Parliament, the last time that happened it caused no end of issues...
Possibly he is advocating that if you are going to arrest an MP on a politically sensitive charge you at least let ministers be aware of it.
The serious breach of the law in this case being leaking information that should never have been secret in the first place. We need more MPs like Damian Green not less. And if it is a Tory plot, why are so many Labour MPs also up in arms about it?
If the Speaker did know, it doesn't mean he should have informed anyone else because he is supposed to be politically neutral.
And if the police didn't, how is this the government's fault?
I don't think the police should have any duty to inform the government in that sort of scenario. They are politically independent.
So basically you think MPs are above the law.
We are probably going to have to agree to disagree on this one. For the Speaker to allow this without informing both the Government and the Opposition is quite a serious breach of Parliament ettiquette and if he did know and did nothing about it then he could quite easily find himself being called on to resign. As to being politically neutral, I think he overstepped those bounds plenty of times while speaker.
Because the Government are in charge of the police? They come under the Home Office after all. As to being politically independant, when the head of the Met is no longer a political appointee then I will agree with you that they are politically independant.
They already are in certain respects. I do believe that they should be given a certain amount of leeway when it comes to political cases such as this one. I also think that their position warrants a certain amount of respect from the police as well. Was a dawn raid really the right way of going about this arrest?
He could equally be considered at fault if he is supposed to be neutral yet informed his Labour colleagues of something which he was not at liberty to do. What actually happened and what the protocol is, I don't know.
The government are not operationally in charge of the police. They can't tell the police who to investigate or charge, or who not to investigate or charge.
Was the police operation justified or carried out correctly? I don't know - that is a matter for the police to justify, not the government.
Soldato
That's ridiculous. Of course they can.