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Unfortunately, Moffat has a history of ruining good programmes - ahem *Doctor Who*.
Sherlock - Series 2 - BBC
- Thread starter Damien.
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Soldato
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"Did you miss me?"
No.
Recycling that tedious **** just adds to my concerns for the next series. Of course I'll look forward to it, but still...
I'm also curious as to how they can progress with these characters after the events of these three episodes. I really don't see where they can go with them now.
No.
Recycling that tedious **** just adds to my concerns for the next series. Of course I'll look forward to it, but still...
I'm also curious as to how they can progress with these characters after the events of these three episodes. I really don't see where they can go with them now.
Caporegime
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So...one. And some might argue that he is what made modern Who good, as all the great episodes are his episodes.
Associate
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Just finished watching this. Quite bizarre, jumped all over the place. I've lost my enthusiasm for the show after this season.
It isn't perfectly valid. It is poor, but is possibly excusable in this instance through the short length of the series. Show, don't tell...the golden rule!
Soldato
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I thought he was excellent tbh. I can understand what you mean when you say maybe he 'lacked' something, but it only made him more sinister imo. And he has the BeeGee's as his ringtone. Genius.
Caporegime
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Meh, come on, if it's a 20 ep season then twists all over the place can just about be fine(but are often overdone anyway), but in a 3 ep series, 1/3 of a series where both the super villian and hero die... and both were just a twist, it's ridiculous, it's complete nonsense.
Likewise the show ultimately is about a detective, something they've completely forgotten while trying to make it hip and focusing on twists and stupid crap.
There are 4 main characters I would say with a few support characters, 3 of them now have had a ridiculous major twist plotline of which only one(Sherlock's death) was even slightly plausible. They spent WAY too much time talking about Sherlock and how he did it, then they spent ages(some of it decent enough) getting back in touch with Watson.
First 4 eps, great, since then... either rubbish or meh. It's gone from a good detective show, updated for modern times, with good stories, focusing on the investigation and a little friendship which is all it needed, to attempting to be Lost while making all the detective side of the show shallow, basic and pointless.
Likewise the show ultimately is about a detective, something they've completely forgotten while trying to make it hip and focusing on twists and stupid crap.
There are 4 main characters I would say with a few support characters, 3 of them now have had a ridiculous major twist plotline of which only one(Sherlock's death) was even slightly plausible. They spent WAY too much time talking about Sherlock and how he did it, then they spent ages(some of it decent enough) getting back in touch with Watson.
First 4 eps, great, since then... either rubbish or meh. It's gone from a good detective show, updated for modern times, with good stories, focusing on the investigation and a little friendship which is all it needed, to attempting to be Lost while making all the detective side of the show shallow, basic and pointless.
Yeah - I could live with most of it tbh if there was a little more of the detective aspect - its somewhat interesting in its own merit as far as it goes but just not enough sherlock any more. The whole mind palace thing is getting really old, should have just done a side on slow motion of him getting shot with him doing a voice over of the mental process (a little like the boxing match in the movie) and had done with it, more effective and less tedious/weird.
Caporegime
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Yeah, the getting shot what to do thing took so long, it was just boring.
This is all kind of the filler stuff you pad out a 24 ep season of a show with. The entire point of it being 3 eps is to make 3 really interesting shows, and 3 really really interesting cases without the pressure of coming up with 24 different crimes/investigations every season. It's set up for 3 "epic" crimes every season, and after 2x01, the crimes have basically been stupid and an afterthought to the drama/soap aspect of the show, now it's twists and character growth.
Sherlock is how freaking old as a concept? It's a detective show, we know what SHerlock is like, just let him be Sherlock, write three great crime/investigation eps, and leave it at that.
I thought the being only 3 shows would help it not have to do the filler stuff, wouldn't have to insist on doing Lost style change of direction every 42 seconds of every episode, instead they've gone the other way now, they've tried to cram in a entire massive series of twists and character growth into 3 episodes, and done that at the expense of the main premise of the show, they really couldn't have got it any more backwards if they tried.
This is all kind of the filler stuff you pad out a 24 ep season of a show with. The entire point of it being 3 eps is to make 3 really interesting shows, and 3 really really interesting cases without the pressure of coming up with 24 different crimes/investigations every season. It's set up for 3 "epic" crimes every season, and after 2x01, the crimes have basically been stupid and an afterthought to the drama/soap aspect of the show, now it's twists and character growth.
Sherlock is how freaking old as a concept? It's a detective show, we know what SHerlock is like, just let him be Sherlock, write three great crime/investigation eps, and leave it at that.
I thought the being only 3 shows would help it not have to do the filler stuff, wouldn't have to insist on doing Lost style change of direction every 42 seconds of every episode, instead they've gone the other way now, they've tried to cram in a entire massive series of twists and character growth into 3 episodes, and done that at the expense of the main premise of the show, they really couldn't have got it any more backwards if they tried.
Associate
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Yeah the part where he got shot was very tedious, I actually got up and went to browse GD while that was going on since it was taking so long and wasn't clever. I don't know why they feel the need to add flash sequences all over the place like the bullet-time for him being shot, and the sequence where he's talking about using the keycard in the lift.
I agree with drunkemaster that it's strayed way too far from the source material and what makes Sherlock interesting, which is his observational skills and solving crimes. The focus this season was all on Watson, and in the end Sherlock didn't even solve anything, he didn't realise there was no information vault, he just shot the guy in the head after he told him everything.
I thought they hinted at the fact that Sherlock knew it was all in his "mind palace" in the café scene, and was just more misdirection from Sherlock making Magnussen believe he was weak (increasing his morphine dose etc).
Also, I feel that Mycroft and Sherlock had a plan that was going to lead to Magnussen's death. There's no way Mycroft would have been so careless with his laptop, so much to declare what was on it to the viewer. We have to remember that Mycroft is supposed to be smarter than Sherlock.
The scene where he got shot was great, it shows a glimpse at how he would have prepared for his rooftop showdown with Moriarty and leaves something for the viewer to think about having him chained up inside Sherlock's mind.
Also, based on the source material I think we can be safe in assuming that Moriarty is in fact dead and the broadcast was done by either Mary, Mycroft, at a stretch possibly Miss Adler or Moriarty's "Watson" from the books, Sebastian Moran.
Soldato
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The 'part where he got shot' was superb. A magnificent display of technical and directional wizardry well above the UK tv pay grade.
It sounds like you would rather be watching midsomer murders. I really don't understand many of the people in this thread.
Associate
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Sherlock didn't know, since it showed he was shocked when he saw the empty room. It also showed him deliberating about killing Magnusson, and then Mycroft was shocked when he shot him. If Sherlock wanted to just kill him, he would have come up with a better plan than shooting him in front of the police.
Can anyone share with me the motivation for Magnussen in actually revealing what the archives were to Sherlock? Surely the barter for Mycrofts laptop wasnt enough considering he was effectively putting a target on his head?
ps3ud0
ps3ud0
Sherlock was just being sure, and once he was sure there was no physical evidence to be released killing him was the easiest way. If you notice when Mycroft shows up he's yelling "Step away from the target" if they were actually there to get Sherlock/Watson it would be "targets".
I'm pretty sure Sherlock had a plan set up with Mycroft that would revolve around arresting Magnusson for stealing state secrets, but once Sherlock was sure there was no physical vault he shot him. He shoots him to protect Mary, and in turn John. He waits until the police turn up because a) He doesn't want to implicate John by shooting someone with his gun b) Mycroft is extremely powerful and Sherlock knows he has protection. However, you can tell shooting Magnusson wasn't part of Sherlock/Mycroft's plan because of the visualisation Mycroft has of Sherlock as the foolish little child so that wasn't the exact plan.
Man of Honour
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Most of Moffat's Who is a lot better than his predecessor's...
Soldato
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It's superfluous and wholly unnecessary. It could be justified if the story was there, but it felt like absolute filler that went on far too long for a 90 minute sitting. If it was a film you'd be panning it. I suppose you thought Prometheus was good too. I might as well have been staring at a fish tank tbh. "Ohhh, look at the flashy lights!"
Can anyone share with me the motivation for Magnussen in actually revealing what the archives were to Sherlock? Surely the barter for Mycrofts laptop wasnt enough considering he was effectively putting a target on his head?
ps3ud0
It was such a rubbish plot, I'm still trying to digest it and determine whether I've been bamboozled by it. What motivation does any traditional villain have for revealing trade secrets? Because they think they've got the hero in a corner and want to delight in stroking their own clever ego's and indulge themselves in the torment of their rival's dismay? (Also it really helps with narrative).
I could actually live with the Moriarty broadcast if it was indeed part of Mycroft's overarching grandmasterplan to ensure Sherlock doesn't get sent to Europe on a one-way mission following their planned 'broad daylight' assassination of Magnussen. Unfortunately I think FutileBreadMachine has put that theory to bed.
Sadly agree completely.
They ruined it, jumped the shark at multiple points. So many character twists, stinks of poor writing. Everyone is apparently living a lie and not who they say they are, and apparently even those who aren't, work in some capacity for the villains. Jesus wept, just hire some more actors? Utter nonsense.
The only brave thing they did this season in tandem with the original novels is allude to him briefly as being a smackhead due to being undercover in a smack den (obviously slightly different as smoking pure opium during Victoria's time), although that was quickly given the humour treatment then brushed away to mere mentions. (Almost as bad as Brody completely recovering in 16 days). Although thinking about it he did screw up quite a a lot this series and did hardly any detective work, probably suffered some brain damage as a result of being tortured in episode one too... Guys, I've solved it! That's obviously why this season was crap and no detective stuff was done, Sherlock's off his rocker!
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And badly flawed, a bullet entering the body can tumble, hit a bone, etc. and exit 90 degrees to the entry vector - no guarantee it would pass clean through or plug the entry wound if it didn't.
I did like the insight into Sherlock's psychology though - how he had no emotional issue with shooting magnussen, it was the most logical thing to do for the best outcome so he did it. (Goes a bit deeper than that but I'm typing on a tablet).
Caporegime
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The idea it would plug the entry wound is pretty much ridiculous, as while further in to the body it may well stop and may well stop some bleeding, there would be a lot of bleeding from other veins being cut, as you say something breaking behind him wouldn't be proof of it not exiting, even more so, the idea that if he fell with the hole pointing up that he wouldn't bleed as badly was profoundly stupid.
This was all ignoring a few basic things, she didn't intend to kill him....... she could have shot him in the leg, arm, shoulder. There was no reasoning for making it look like she meant to kill him but in fact didn't, the shooting the coin was embarrassingly stupid.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/energy_transfer.htm
okay pretty much the first link I found, not much energy transfer, plugging the entry hole, all these things sound retarded, and are retarded. A bullet generally rips crap up inside and penetrates a decent distance, with no particular reason she would be using special ammo for lower lethality when she went there to kill someone. The whole thing just attempting to be stylish when the general premise of the show, and what it was trying to attempt to be, was him being clever. But they failed simply because their idea and information was rubbish.
The entire thing later on with Sherlock deducing that Magnuson wouldn't tell anyone she shot Sherlock so let him live? What, she went there to kill him because of the information he originally had, Sherlock living meant he could tell on her if she murders Magnuson or not, so why wouldn't she do it, completely ridiculous. She supposedly shot Sherlock to incapacitate him, why on earth would you shoot someone and put them within a few seconds of dying when she could just as easily shot him in the leg.
The entire concept of most of the episode was beyond stupid. Hell, even the "it would be rather stupid to shoot me here when your face is on the building....." how about shooting him with a silencer and disposing of the body, how about finding the projector and turning it off...
The show was at one stage clever, or attempting to be it. When you start writing with the primary purpose being twists and shocks and surprises, logic unsurprisingly tends to disappear.
I would also strongly suspect that shooting a coin would merely cause both bullet and coin to change trajectory, you would never get a hole in the coin, potentially if the coin were clamped down in place, even then I'm not sure it's likely.
This was all ignoring a few basic things, she didn't intend to kill him....... she could have shot him in the leg, arm, shoulder. There was no reasoning for making it look like she meant to kill him but in fact didn't, the shooting the coin was embarrassingly stupid.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/energy_transfer.htm
okay pretty much the first link I found, not much energy transfer, plugging the entry hole, all these things sound retarded, and are retarded. A bullet generally rips crap up inside and penetrates a decent distance, with no particular reason she would be using special ammo for lower lethality when she went there to kill someone. The whole thing just attempting to be stylish when the general premise of the show, and what it was trying to attempt to be, was him being clever. But they failed simply because their idea and information was rubbish.
The entire thing later on with Sherlock deducing that Magnuson wouldn't tell anyone she shot Sherlock so let him live? What, she went there to kill him because of the information he originally had, Sherlock living meant he could tell on her if she murders Magnuson or not, so why wouldn't she do it, completely ridiculous. She supposedly shot Sherlock to incapacitate him, why on earth would you shoot someone and put them within a few seconds of dying when she could just as easily shot him in the leg.
The entire concept of most of the episode was beyond stupid. Hell, even the "it would be rather stupid to shoot me here when your face is on the building....." how about shooting him with a silencer and disposing of the body, how about finding the projector and turning it off...
The show was at one stage clever, or attempting to be it. When you start writing with the primary purpose being twists and shocks and surprises, logic unsurprisingly tends to disappear.
I would also strongly suspect that shooting a coin would merely cause both bullet and coin to change trajectory, you would never get a hole in the coin, potentially if the coin were clamped down in place, even then I'm not sure it's likely.
After having watched the 3 latest episodes of Sherlock, i have to say i was completely and utterly let down by it...a lot of it didnt make any sense as others have mentioned in the thread. Series 1 was so much better than this pile of tripe..just far too many twists to keep up and then delving into Sherlocks mind was pretty mind numbingly boring.
Saying that i still think Cumberbatch is a brilliant actor as Sherlock but im hoping if they do a series 3, they go back to what they did in series 1...certainly seems so as Moriarty is back.
Saying that i still think Cumberbatch is a brilliant actor as Sherlock but im hoping if they do a series 3, they go back to what they did in series 1...certainly seems so as Moriarty is back.