Shots fired outside parliament - Please refrain from speculative and antagonistic posts

Arazi · 24 Mar 2017 at 17:56

Amp34 said:
You were also asked pages back why specifically people on the Islamic Terrorism watchlist? Why not people on other terrorism watch lists, or anyone suspected but not convicted of committing a crime.

You didn't answer that...

I did.

e:

Here you go to save you searching:

Arazi said:
My views are based on what this thread is all about, Islamic terrorism, i havnt mentioned anything about the other kinds or terror you mention above, this thread isn't about any of them, but if you would like an answer as to what to do with other forms of extremism\watchlist, then whatever the severest punishment that is available, lock up, deport or anything else to get them off our streets.

garnett · 24 Mar 2017 at 18:02

dowie said:
Indeed, similar mentality to the non-liberal muslims who spew bile (including death threats) at a liberal muslim girl who dared to twerk on youtube, or who march in their thousands on google HQ, spewing more bile, because youtube hosted a film they were 'offended' by.

And indeed both sides have produced violent individuals capable of killing - the Jo Cox murderer, the guy who bombed soho, the various islamist attackers and the hundreds of ISIS volunteers. Granted there is perhaps a bigger issue with this sort of bigotry turning violent within the Islamic community but there are similarities between intolerant muslims and intolerant christians.

Exactly. Born white, these guys would be Brexiteers like Thomas Mair*, or like Breivik or a Trump supporter. Isis has scale, but losers are universal.

*I am not saying all Brexiteers are like Mair.

Terminal_Boy · 24 Mar 2017 at 18:05

Freakbro said:
The last I heard he wasn't armed, has it changed again?

Even if he was I thought that video posted up a few pages back about the speed and distance a knife attacker can overpower an armed person quite interesting

Nope. Not armed and not wearing a stab-proof vest under his hi-vis jacket.

Amp34 · 24 Mar 2017 at 18:08

Arazi said:
I did.

e:

Here you go to save you searching:

My views are based on what this thread is all about, Islamic terrorism, i havnt mentioned anything about the other kinds or terror you mention above, this thread isn't about any of them, but if you would like an answer as to what to do with other forms of extremism\watchlist, then whatever the severest punishment that is available, lock up, deport or anything else to get them off our streets.

Click to expand...

Sorry but that is not a proper answer.

This was the question

Out of interest should your deportation/locking up scheme for those "known to the police" only be related to political/terrorist related incidents? What about gangsters and burglars, people that have been suspected of sexual and physical assault? In fact anyone that may or may not have committed a crime? Why bother with judges, juries and trials if we can just process people on suspicion of something (with little to no evidence)?

Why create such a draconian system for a small part (and very minor day to day threat) when at the very least if we are going to destroy a fundamental part of our culture and justice system we should be aiming at those threats that are far greater.

Would you care to answer why you believe our judicial system should just be dumped because you're afraid of a once in a decade attack?

Are you really quite happy to lock up hundreds of thousands of people, without trial, because they may be suspect in sympathising or doing something?

If you've actually thought it through, and that is till your opinion then I suggest it may be worth leaving the UK for somewhere like N. Korea. You'd fit in much better there I feel.

Arazi · 24 Mar 2017 at 18:10

No, i wouldnt, i have made my view clear on what to do with scum on a list.

Amp34 · 24 Mar 2017 at 18:12

Arazi said:
No, i wouldnt, i have made my view clear on what to do with scum on a list.

So you agree then? You believe hundreds of thousands of people should be deported/jailed without trial because they have found their way onto a list of possible illegality?

Arazi · 24 Mar 2017 at 18:16

Anyone on a terrorism watch list, I think I have said it enough times. Also this thread is about an Islamic terrorist is it not?

It is not about any other terrorist watch list, but i have made my point clear on what to do with them also.

But you crack on with your BS.

Freakbro · 24 Mar 2017 at 18:18

Arazi said:
No, i wouldnt, i have made my view clear on what to do with scum on a list.

And that's where you differ drastically, you just assume everyone on a list is 'scum' with no evidence whatsover and thus feel vindicated to deport/lock up/punish severely

And I guess you still don't see a problem with that?

Arazi · 24 Mar 2017 at 18:22

dowie · 24 Mar 2017 at 18:22

garnett said:
Exactly. Born white, these guys would be Brexiteers like Thomas Mair*, or like Breivik or a Trump supporter. Isis has scale, but losers are universal.

*I am not saying all Brexiteers are like Mair.

Glad you put that last bit in, I was about to say - I'd not class say Daniel Hannan or Jacob Rees Mogg as being remotely similar.

C.R.A.Z.Y · 24 Mar 2017 at 18:30

Arazi said:
Nope

So you don't believe in justice and due process ??
Nice, glad you're not in charge :rolleyes:

Amp34 · 24 Mar 2017 at 18:31

Arazi said:
Anyone on a terrorism watch list, I think I have said it enough times. Also this thread is about an Islamic terrorist is it not?

It is not about any other terrorist watch list, but i have made my point clear on what to do with them also.

But you crack on with your BS.

At least we've cleared that up, so now it's anyone on a terrorist watchlist, not just islamic(s). But my question still stands - what judicial oversight are you putting in to deport and lock people up? If they are only on a watchlist then it most likely means there is not enough evidence to convict them of anything (and may just be they are associated with someone that has/is believed to be doing something).

You're basically jailing innocent people without any judicial review - basically you're taking a 1000 year old part of our civilisation and throwing it in the bin, while ignoring it for other (just as serious) threats - like gang violence and suspected murderers.

There is a reason we have judges, trials and juries, and don't just leave the judging to police.

So I ask the question again - have you really thought this through?

Freakbro · 24 Mar 2017 at 18:33

Arazi said:
Nope

How easily frightened you are to be so eager to discard basic legal rights of any civilised society.

LOAM · 24 Mar 2017 at 18:35

And where would they go? This is 2017 not 1817 where we can ship them off to the colonies.

Freakbro · 24 Mar 2017 at 18:36

LOAM said:
And where would they go? This is 2017 not 1817 where we can ship them off to the colonies.

Well, Kent obviously in the case of this guy....duh!

Arazi · 24 Mar 2017 at 18:40

C.R.A.Z.Y said:
So you don't believe in justice and due process ??
Nice, glad you're not in charge

Jog on.

Yas786 · 24 Mar 2017 at 18:43

God help Arazi if he ever found himself on a terrorist list.

Wonder if he would feel the same if by some reason he found himself on a terrorist watch list.

Arazi · 24 Mar 2017 at 18:43

Freakbro said:
How easily frightened you are to be so eager to discard basic legal rights of any civilised society.

Drastic measures for drastic events\times, when those drastic events\times are over then so will the drastic measures, simple.

Unlike your rambling BS.

Yas786 · 24 Mar 2017 at 18:44

Arazi said:
Jog on.

Nice accuses others of insulting others but does exactly the same.

You really have a thin skin don't you?? If you can't handle people questioning your views.

Arazi · 24 Mar 2017 at 18:44

LOAM said:
And where would they go? This is 2017 not 1817 where we can ship them off to the colonies.

Germany are starting to do it, i said this earlier in the thread, they don't need colonies.