Caporegime
You give the marbles back and then the Egyptians will kick up even more of a fuss over the Rosetta Stone
Should Britain give back items accumulated from different countries?
- Thread starter GGizmo
- Start date
Only if they pay in Gyros and Olive Oil.
Personally I'd give everything back.
I saw these just a few days ago oddly enough while at the British Museum, honestly they weren’t that impressive
If they were legitimately acquired though I don’t see why there should be any obligation to ‘give them back’
The Rosetta Stone seemed way cooler
If they were legitimately acquired though I don’t see why there should be any obligation to ‘give them back’
The Rosetta Stone seemed way cooler
Associate
If the whole of Britain gave back items accumulated from other countries I think the length of hotel towels being sent back would be amazing.
I’m a member of the British Museum and I love visiting. However, there are a lot of items in the British Museum collection that should not be there. After all, if another country had part of Stone Henge or Westminster Abbey, we’d want it back wouldn’t we?
There’s a Burma/Myanmar exhibition on at the moment and it’s wild how much looting we did in that country. You really wonder how a mid-ranked officer in the British army managed to cart something like a several-tonne statue home.
I agree that returning objects needs to be done on a case-by-case basis, looking at how safe is the home country, its cultural significance, how it came into our hands, etc.
For example, it’s only claimed that the Elgin Marbles were removed with permission. Even if that’s true, permission was given by the Ottoman Empire rather than the Greeks. Same goes with a lot of the Egyptian objects.
There’s a Burma/Myanmar exhibition on at the moment and it’s wild how much looting we did in that country. You really wonder how a mid-ranked officer in the British army managed to cart something like a several-tonne statue home.
I agree that returning objects needs to be done on a case-by-case basis, looking at how safe is the home country, its cultural significance, how it came into our hands, etc.
For example, it’s only claimed that the Elgin Marbles were removed with permission. Even if that’s true, permission was given by the Ottoman Empire rather than the Greeks. Same goes with a lot of the Egyptian objects.
Soldato
you found more interesting a stone with inscriptions written on it rather than statues and sculptures so fine crafted that look like they are about to come alive? Seriously?
Auto ignore topic is brought up and auto ignored.
Every country has a list of beef and bringing it up during a visit is either accepted as a cost of business or taken as a political insult and the response is also an insult. I'm surprised how much China tolerates western political whinging in order for business to continue.
Or if the party trying to start something is too small, outright ignored under the rules of what you gonna do about it.
Every country has a list of beef and bringing it up during a visit is either accepted as a cost of business or taken as a political insult and the response is also an insult. I'm surprised how much China tolerates western political whinging in order for business to continue.
Or if the party trying to start something is too small, outright ignored under the rules of what you gonna do about it.
Yes, human ego really is the greatest obstacle to reason.
Soldato
Maybe we could offer them Prince Harry as a person of possible Greek provenance.
For which we can say "no" because Egypt is one angry mob away from implosion every other year.
Soldato
It was used as building material by some Mamluk Sultan building a fort, discovered by a French man during the Napoleonic wars and we Brits only relieved him of it so no crime was committed.
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Soldato
I don't think there's a clear answer for the Elgin marbles, and think it's odd that some people can confidently state it's immoral that they're still in the UK.
Lots of questions about to what extent cultural objects should stay in the place they were found, who gets to claim connections to that history, how much the circumstances of their discovery / evaluation as an important artefact / purchase / theft matter etc. Also how old or significant does an object have to be before we start considering the issue of where it should be held and by who to be a moral issue.
- I don't think I have clear answers to any of those questions.
Personally I've come round to the idea of returning artefacts where we know they were looted, as long as they won't be at risk wherever they're sent to. Think it probably is fair, and could be good diplomatically (although the question of exactly who the artefact gets 'returned' to might be quite tricky for some examples). The Elgin Marbles don't fit in that category though, seems as far as we know they were acquired reasonably legitimately.
An interesting one to think about might be the Bayeux Tapestry. Seems widely accepted that it lives in France, despite the fact that it's clearly more culturally significant for the UK and specifically England, was created in England, and was owned by someone who was leader of what has now become the UK. Is it immoral for France to have it? (Idk)
Lots of questions about to what extent cultural objects should stay in the place they were found, who gets to claim connections to that history, how much the circumstances of their discovery / evaluation as an important artefact / purchase / theft matter etc. Also how old or significant does an object have to be before we start considering the issue of where it should be held and by who to be a moral issue.
- I don't think I have clear answers to any of those questions.
Personally I've come round to the idea of returning artefacts where we know they were looted, as long as they won't be at risk wherever they're sent to. Think it probably is fair, and could be good diplomatically (although the question of exactly who the artefact gets 'returned' to might be quite tricky for some examples). The Elgin Marbles don't fit in that category though, seems as far as we know they were acquired reasonably legitimately.
An interesting one to think about might be the Bayeux Tapestry. Seems widely accepted that it lives in France, despite the fact that it's clearly more culturally significant for the UK and specifically England, was created in England, and was owned by someone who was leader of what has now become the UK. Is it immoral for France to have it? (Idk)
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Yep that’s exactly what I said
Caporegime
No.
Soldato
Do you include people?
The Bayeux Tapestry was at least commissioned by someone in France (Odo of Bayeux) and portrays a story that has significance to France. The Elgin Marbles have no cultural connection to Britain.
Soldato
We should make exact copies of all the stuff we took and give back the originals.
Soldato
Case by case basis.. I personally might entertain it, if the Marbles are bought for the same price as our Government paid Elgin for them as a token exchange and they are to be held/displayed by a museum in Greece, then it seems a nice thing to do.
However, any automatic right to return anything disputed ever in history? No..
However, any automatic right to return anything disputed ever in history? No..