I would say no. We can't even sort immigration out without endless legal challenges. Can you imagine what it would be like for death penalty! Plus looking to the USA as an example, it doesn't really have much of a deterrent effect with them and I personally don't think we'd be much different here.
Should capital punishment be brought back?
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Andrew Malkinson is a recent example. The state get it wrong much more often than we would like to think and then there is groupthink, egotistical behaviour and friendly relations between organisations that are supposed to be independent of each other which means that they want to protect their own rather than seek to overturn the verdict and admit they got it catastrophically wrong.
This is not to mention the innate barbarism of the death penalty, that it is not a deterrent (just look at countries that have it) and that it should worry anyone to give the state that sort of power.
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I'd agree.
I'm all for penal labour, but it need not be mindless rock smashing. Prisoners should be offered work - probably computer work - with no compulsion but also no pay. It would be voluntary, useful for rehabilitation and useful for society.
Commissario
What actual evidence do you have of this?
Caporegime
100% yes
All crime should carry an instant death penalty to be issued by some kind of street judge.
All crime should carry an instant death penalty to be issued by some kind of street judge.
Caporegime
I’d offer them voluntary euthanasia. At least then it’s their choice whether they live or die, which is more than their victims had
Caporegime
Women’s prisons are often much more pleasant. Yes I know it’s the mail but this ran yesterday
Inside the uni halls-style prison where Lucy Letby could be sent
The 33-year-old, who will be held in segregation at first to stop her being attacked by fellow inmates, is likely to be jailed in HMP Low Newton in Durham alongside Joanna Dennehy.
Commissario
A Bit of a Stretch: The Diaries of a Prisoner eBook : Atkins, Chris: Amazon.co.uk: Kindle Store
A Bit of a Stretch: The Diaries of a Prisoner eBook : Atkins, Chris: Amazon.co.uk: Kindle Store
www.amazon.co.uk
Proper eye opener.
Spot on.
This is a very difficult subject, in the Letby case I would say 100% yes, why should we pay for someone who is never going to be released to be incarcerated for the rest of her life because she's no possibility of rehabilitation (similar to Fred West, Ian Huntley etc.) but with the chance of 'getting it wrong' makes me doubt we should.
Does make me laugh the whole 'prison is too soft' rhetoric as all these people have seen is a journalistic view that is designed to prompt outrage and mouth frothing, having been inside several different establishments over the last few years I can 1st hand say it's not a hotel you cannot leave (I also don't think she'd be going to Low Newton, will probably be sent to New Hall) and New Hall is definitely not like Uni Halls (certainly not Uni Halls that I've experienced) as it's a horrible dungeon like depressing place with leaking walls and cold draughty cells.
Does make me laugh the whole 'prison is too soft' rhetoric as all these people have seen is a journalistic view that is designed to prompt outrage and mouth frothing, having been inside several different establishments over the last few years I can 1st hand say it's not a hotel you cannot leave (I also don't think she'd be going to Low Newton, will probably be sent to New Hall) and New Hall is definitely not like Uni Halls (certainly not Uni Halls that I've experienced) as it's a horrible dungeon like depressing place with leaking walls and cold draughty cells.
Soldato
I would say yes in some cases, but also admit that is a totally emotive response (a good friend was killed in the Fishmongers hall attack)
I would like to see hard labour brought back though, even if that's breaking rocks or walking on a wheel 18 hours a day.
I would like to see hard labour brought back though, even if that's breaking rocks or walking on a wheel 18 hours a day.
Soldato
No.
The entire prison system needs reform to stop it being something that drives people into a life ruined by a mistake they made in the past, just take a look at how the prison systems in Denmark/Sweden/Finland work and their reoffending rates.
Obviously there are humans which are beyond rehabilitation, not saying that, but such is the way of being an organism with such a complex brain.
You can't murder people just because they have crossed a threshold of murdering/victimising other people, it's 2023.
The entire prison system needs reform to stop it being something that drives people into a life ruined by a mistake they made in the past, just take a look at how the prison systems in Denmark/Sweden/Finland work and their reoffending rates.
Obviously there are humans which are beyond rehabilitation, not saying that, but such is the way of being an organism with such a complex brain.
You can't murder people just because they have crossed a threshold of murdering/victimising other people, it's 2023.
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Sorry to read this. My Dad was there on that day and I still feel as strongly that the death penalty must not be brought back. These people should rot in jail for life and think about the lives they have taken. They would be very happy to be killed by the state after a public trial because it would make them a martyr (I know Khan was shot and killed by police)
Soldato
Women’s prisons are often much more pleasant. Yes I know it’s the mail but this ran yesterday
Inside the uni halls-style prison where Lucy Letby could be sent
The 33-year-old, who will be held in segregation at first to stop her being attacked by fellow inmates, is likely to be jailed in HMP Low Newton in Durham alongside Joanna Dennehy.www.dailymail.co.uk
A LIBRARY, WHERE PRISONERS CAN BORROW BOOKS FROM?! WHAT IS THIS NANNY STATE?!
Commissario
A definite no to the death penalty, even "DNA evidence" doesn't on it's own necessarily prove that someone is guilty, as it is basically "that person had contact with" (or as has happened more than once "the lab or police handled the samples badly").
There have been far too many instances of convictions that were considered "rock solid" at the time due to "the best scientific evidence" only for them to be overturned years or decades later because it turned out evidence was mishandled, or suppressed, or a test wasn't as accurate as originally thought.
On an intellectual level I don't like the death penalty for the fact that no legal system is flawless and there is almost always a chance it's going to result in a wrongful conviction, there is also an element of the goalposts moving once you've started using it, and lobbying for it to be used for lesser crimes especially when you've got people advocating for it because it's cheaper than prison.
On an emotional level, I would rather someone who has committed murder etc be stuck in a cell, as death feels like an easy way out for some of these criminals and some of the crimes especially given how many will kill themselves anyway, and for terrorists killing them can make them martyrs.
On a technical level IIRC pretty much every study done has shown the death penalty makes little difference in the number of people committing the crimes, detection (solving the crime and catching the criminal) makes much more of a difference*, and if you say put in the death penalty for rape then there is absolutely no reason for the criminal to leave the victim alive and a very big incentive to kill them (as that gives them a much better chance of getting rid of the evidence).
For example the death penalty doesn't help victims 2-5+ if you don't take case 1 seriously and find the criminal quickly, and criminals that know the chances of getting caught/stopped are low are far more likely to commit and keep committing their crimes.
*As does changing the circumstances in which people get involved in crimes, for example prohibition in the states created a massive and very lucrative market for criminals and led to large numbers of deaths as people that previously were not generally criminals got involved and fighting between factions got worse, or prostitution where there have been countless studies that have shown you reduce the crimes that "go with" prostitution" (especially the violent crimes) if you regulate it and make the actual act legal and safe and instead crack down on the actual criminals who take advantage of the opportunities that arise from having the sex workers and clients scared to go to the police.
There have been far too many instances of convictions that were considered "rock solid" at the time due to "the best scientific evidence" only for them to be overturned years or decades later because it turned out evidence was mishandled, or suppressed, or a test wasn't as accurate as originally thought.
On an intellectual level I don't like the death penalty for the fact that no legal system is flawless and there is almost always a chance it's going to result in a wrongful conviction, there is also an element of the goalposts moving once you've started using it, and lobbying for it to be used for lesser crimes especially when you've got people advocating for it because it's cheaper than prison.
On an emotional level, I would rather someone who has committed murder etc be stuck in a cell, as death feels like an easy way out for some of these criminals and some of the crimes especially given how many will kill themselves anyway, and for terrorists killing them can make them martyrs.
On a technical level IIRC pretty much every study done has shown the death penalty makes little difference in the number of people committing the crimes, detection (solving the crime and catching the criminal) makes much more of a difference*, and if you say put in the death penalty for rape then there is absolutely no reason for the criminal to leave the victim alive and a very big incentive to kill them (as that gives them a much better chance of getting rid of the evidence).
For example the death penalty doesn't help victims 2-5+ if you don't take case 1 seriously and find the criminal quickly, and criminals that know the chances of getting caught/stopped are low are far more likely to commit and keep committing their crimes.
*As does changing the circumstances in which people get involved in crimes, for example prohibition in the states created a massive and very lucrative market for criminals and led to large numbers of deaths as people that previously were not generally criminals got involved and fighting between factions got worse, or prostitution where there have been countless studies that have shown you reduce the crimes that "go with" prostitution" (especially the violent crimes) if you regulate it and make the actual act legal and safe and instead crack down on the actual criminals who take advantage of the opportunities that arise from having the sex workers and clients scared to go to the police.
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Caporegime
I assume you’re a prison officer