Should UK self-defence laws be reformed?

The issue is not with the laws, the issue is with the people.

Most on here don't understand self defense or fighting, will say too much force was used, that's going to be replicated in courts.

If its a burglary, cut them up and feed them to the dogs.
 
platinum87 said:
The issue is not with the laws, the issue is with the people.

Most on here don't understand self defense or fighting, will say too much force was used, that's going to be replicated in courts.

If its a burglary, cut them up and feed them to the dogs.
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LOL

The level of force that is considered over the top enough to get a case of self defence in the home to court is extreme to say the least. But oddly enough if you "feed them to the dogs" and there is ever any evidence found you're going to have a really hard time convincing even 12 members of the jury who are exceptionally reluctant to convict on home invasion self defence cases, that you didn't do a murder and not a self defence.

And if it is self defence outside the house as a general rule as long as you don't keep kicking someone in the head once they're down and out you're probably going to be ok, although the police will rightly do an investigation because otherwise they've only got your word that it was self defence and not that you had an argument with the other guy a week ago and decided to give him a good shoeing (oddly enough the police have this odd tendency to check what's happened and not just blindly take the person still standing's word when there is someone in/on the way to the hospital).
 
Werewolf said:
LOL

The level of force that is considered over the top enough to get a case of self defence in the home to court is extreme to say the least. But oddly enough if you "feed them to the dogs" and there is ever any evidence found you're going to have a really hard time convincing even 12 members of the jury who are exceptionally reluctant to convict on home invasion self defence cases, that you didn't do a murder and not a self defence.

And if it is self defence outside the house as a general rule as long as you don't keep kicking someone in the head once they're down and out you're probably going to be ok, although the police will rightly do an investigation because otherwise they've only got your word that it was self defence and not that you had an argument with the other guy a week ago and decided to give him a good shoeing (oddly enough the police have this odd tendency to check what's happened and not just blindly take the person still standing's word when there is someone in/on the way to the hospital).
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I don't believe that to be true. But if it was true it would be good.
 
Haggisman said:
The public aren't barred from buying and carrying things like camping knives for good reason. I could go down to my local camping shop right now and perfectly legally buy a 6" camping knife.

The laws are pretty clear tbh.
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It really isn't, and no you can't just go buy one.

Firstly, you have to be 18 or older, and secondly, you most likely will be charged if you are spotted with it on your belt. You have to have a good reason for carrying it.

I suppose it comes down to your trust in the law, and in my experience the police will arrest you, not if it makes sense, but if they get brownie-points for doing so.

The police are too literal in their interpretation of the law, these days.
 
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SpellowHouse said:
It really isn't, and no you can't just go buy one.
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It really is, and yes you can :confused:

SpellowHouse said:
Fistly, you have to be 18 or older
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Are you really going to try and make the ridiculous argument that we shouldn't have age restrictions for anything? :rolleyes:

SpellowHouse said:
and secondly, you most likely will be charged if you are spotted with it on your belt. You have to have a good reason for carrying it.
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Correct, I said as much in my post. Why would you need to carry it on your belt? In case you need to cut a stick in an emergency?! :cry:

SpellowHouse said:
I suppose it comes down to your trust in the law, and in my experience the police will arrest you, not if it makes sense, but if they get brownie-points for doing so.

The police are too literal in their interpretation of the law, these days.
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And in my experience, if you're not acting like a **** the police will have no reason to search you, so won't even know you have a knife, never mind actually arrest you.

If a copper spots you wandering around with a 6" knife on your belt in the middle of town on a Saturday night then of course you're going to have some difficult questions to answer.

If a copper walks past while you're using your knife to gut a fish you've just caught, they aren't going to arrest you for having it. Do you really think they have the resources to waste on arresting someone for not committing a crime when there's no chance of a prosecution?
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
If it was legal then muggers etc would use it to immediately subdue their victim, criminals would take full advantage of it.
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Yup

That's something that the "arm everyone" types often can't see, at the moment simply carrying a weapon is enough for the police to treat you with suspicion and potentially arrest and charge you so a lot of criminals will avoid carrying one..
If it was legal to carry them then the criminals would be far more likely to carry and use them in the knowledge that the police wouldn't be able to easily question why they were being carried.
 
I think pepper spray/cs gas should be legal as a self defence weapon. Especially because many people who are carrying knives are doing so out of protection against other people carrying knives. It's become a cycle.

A spray would be good to break the cycle, while not being deadly.
 
Haggisman said:
It really is, and yes you can :confused:



Are you really going to try and make the ridiculous argument that we shouldn't have age restrictions for anything? :rolleyes:



Correct, I said as much in my post. Why would you need to carry it on your belt? In case you need to cut a stick in an emergency?! :cry:



And in my experience, if you're not acting like a **** the police will have no reason to search you, so won't even know you have a knife, never mind actually arrest you.

If a copper spots you wandering around with a 6" knife on your belt in the middle of town on a Saturday night then of course you're going to have some difficult questions to answer.

If a copper walks past while you're using your knife to gut a fish you've just caught, they aren't going to arrest you for having it. Do you really think they have the resources to waste on arresting someone for not committing a crime when there's no chance of a prosecution?
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Well, you wouldn't know. You spend far too much time inside, arguing on forums. :cry:

Honestly, I think that's a really naive point of view there. In my humble opinion, you really don't know the police at all.
 
BowdonUK said:
I think pepper spray/cs gas should be legal as a self defence weapon. Especially because many people who are carrying knives are doing so out of protection against other people carrying knives. It's become a cycle.

A spray would be good to break the cycle, while not being deadly.
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Me too. I bought some in the US once, not knowing it was illegal here. I ended up giving some of it to a woman who had to cross through a rather dangerous place in Bristol. Within six months she had used in on some disgusting blob of a bloke who tried to rob her. Well done you, I thought.
 
SpellowHouse said:
Well, you wouldn't know. You spend far too much time inside, arguing on forums. :cry:

Honestly, I think that's a really naive point of view there. In my humble opinion, you really don't know the police at all.
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And your posts strongly indicate you have a problem with authority, which would suggest you fail the "not acting like a ****" test when dealing with the police, so hardly surprising you feel that way.

You're entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong it may be :)
 
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The government shouldn't be allowed to ban weapons without evidence of their misuse and resulting consequences.

The bill of rights 1689 says I have the right to bear arms. I accept that regulation is needed, like there is with guns.

But why is pepper spray/cs gas outright banned yet no licence is required for a cross bow, a weapon that as caused people to die?
 
You IIRC don't need a licence for a crossbow, but at the same time you can't carry one without good reason and you can't hunt with it, which means about the only excuse to have one on you is if you're going to and from target shooting with it, or between properties.

I suspect the reason you don't need a licence for it is much the same as you IIRC don't need one for a bow, it's not something that is used in many crimes and it is both hard to use, slow, and very obvious.

Meanwhile for criminal use you can easily conceal pepper spray or CS spray, and use it very easily without any skill or effort and without giving the person you're using it on any chance to react.

It's almost like the law looks at what they're banning, how often it is used in crimes and how easy it is to use, then compares it against legitimate non criminal, non attacking other people uses.

IIRC there are specific laws in regards to the misuse of crosbows, at the very least any attempt to use them in a criminal act is likely to be considered using a deadly weapon.
 
Haggisman said:
And your posts strongly indicate you have a problem with authority, which would suggest you fail the "not acting like a ****" test when dealing with the police, so hardly surprising you feel that way.
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Now you are just being silly.

I have no problem with authority, but I do think that the police are career driven these days. And you are very mistaken if you think you have to act like a **** to get arrested.

Since a policemen's career became dependant on number of arrests rather than quality of arrests, most policemen WILL arrest you on anything they can, irrespective of whether it makes sense or not.

Gone are the days when they would use their common.

I once saw two white women arguing at a bus stop. One was American, one was English. They weren't yelling, but they were loud. The English woman said "now I know why Bin Laden did what he did". Unfortunately, there was a passing policemen within earshot. She was promptly arrested and charged with a terrorist offence (hate speech). She was successfully prosecuted. Made it to the local paper in fact.
 
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