Should water companies be banned form adding fluoride to our water?

Sorry I have to reply. People like you will ignore the scientists, doctors, and dentists who are saying fluoride is dangerous. You will stick your argument about concentration and doses. Like you say you I have made my mind up and will not budge so have you. You have made your mind up fluoride is safe and I am not going to change your opinion. Some of the people who say fluoride is dangerous are saying it is the accumulative effect of fluoride. So they tell us the fluoride is in small doses with nothing to worry about. Others are saying the accumulative effect is what you need to worry about.

You don't seem to want to debate, you just seem to want to rant about how it's true and others who question it are blind.

In which case, you're not really any better than the people you are moaning about.

Additionally, okay it seems you feel passionate about this subject, but why bring it to a computer forum? Surely there are other forums where you can post this sort of stuff where people will agree with you en masse?
 
Stop worrying about it, i say.

as a comparison, Botox is 10 times more lethal than polonium-210, 17,200 times more lethal than sarin, and 13,000,000 times more lethal than arsenic, yet people get it injected into their face each and every day.
 
In reference to the OP, I would be delighted if as a society we didn't need to fluroidate the water. Unfortunately in the UK one of the worst regions for tooth decay is Northern Ireland. We have an apauling diet, very high in fermentable carbohydrates, sugars, processed sugars. The frequency of intake is high, and therefore as a population we get high rates of decay.
We don't have fluoridated water, and this is a shame. Personally I would like to see our water fluoridated, until such times as the public health system addresses peoples need to gorge on sugars many times daily. If peoples diets were good, the frequency of sugars low, then there wouldn't be any discussion on fluoride in the water. There would be no need.
Anyway due to the political structure here, we won't ever have water fluoridation, so the point is moot.
OP, I would suggest you review your talk on concentrations. Toothpaste is used topically around the teeth, the idea is to spit out afterwards, not rinse out the mouth, just spit out, so the material can have its helpful effect at strengthening teeth. If you cut sugar frequencies to three times daily, even in the absence of a fluoride toothpaste, you will hopefully be okay regarding future decay. For each brushing with proper toothpaste you can add a frequency daily. Each meal you eat will count as a sugar frequency, it doesn't relate to three chocltae bars per days, its consumption of anything.

But we do not know for certain fluoride helps fight tooth decay. Some studies have shown it does help fight tooth decay, some have shown it doesn't, some have shown it causes fluorosis and is bad for teeth.

Which studies are correct? Of course I cannot say for certain as I never done the studies. I am not going to blindly ignore the scientists, doctors and dentists who says fluoride is dangerous and actually bad for teeth.
 
Which studies are correct? Of course I cannot say for certain as I never done the studies. I am not going to blindly ignore the scientists, doctors and dentists who says fluoride is dangerous and actually bad for teeth.

What are your motives believing one set of people over the other?

Like you said, you don't have a clue, but you have still decided to let one group of people to tell you what to think or believe.
 
You don't seem to want to debate, you just seem to want to rant about how it's true and others who question it are blind.

In which case, you're not really any better than the people you are moaning about.

Additionally, okay it seems you feel passionate about this subject, but why bring it to a computer forum? Surely there are other forums where you can post this sort of stuff where people will agree with you en masse?

Is this not general discussion where we often have topics similar like this discussed?

I may get passionate but when somebody who will not move on their viewpoint once it is made accuses me of not moving on my view point I find it a bit pot, kettle and black.
 
What are your motives believing one set of people over the other?

Like you said, you don't have a clue, but you have still decided to let one group of people to tell you what to think or believe.

They way I look at it some have said it is good for you, some have said is not good or bad for you and some have said it is bad for you. I then think why would would the doctors, dentists and scientists who are saying fluoride is dangerous do so? What is their motive for saying fluoride is dangerous?
 
I would be much more worried about those silver fillings you have.
They certainly do cause an accumulation of heavy metals in the brain stem.

The fluroide effect, with accumulation is again dose related, its all very much dose related.
As i stated in my previous post, in a different society we wouldn't need water fluroidation, it would be surplus to requirements. Unfortunately the one region which would benefit the most is the region where it isn't taking place. Water fluroidation does cut rates of decay, dramatically, and more so when inherent diets are bad with regards fermentable sugars.
The benficial effects have to be weighed up against the bad effects, of which fluorsis is by far and away the most common. Flurosis is dose related, but with individual variation like everything else. Too much fluroide and you will get fluorsis. As for the neurotoxic effects, and the osteo effects less is known, significantly less, as the regions that could conduct proper studies, the US, tend to direct their research monies into money making projects, they will seek items to reduce fluroide load, or remove fluroide from a system, rather than actually investigate if it is necessary.

So you have to weigh up the unconfirmed evidence that links to a limited number of a very rare cancer being potentially caused, against the large numbers of children undergoing general anaesthetics for the the removal of rotten teeth, and the potential side effects of such processes. Kids die under anaesthetic, its a low number but they die, people do, and this is irrefutable.

As for the way tooth and bone turnover, its the application of topical fluroide against teeth which would have the most benefit in this case, so the use of a toothpaste corrcetly, with a moderated diet should help, and remove the need for water fluroidation. Diet diet diet. When you reinforce that to people sufficiently, then the need for the water to be altered is gone.


But we do not know for certain fluoride helps fight tooth decay. Some studies have shown it does help fight tooth decay, some have shown it doesn't, some have shown it causes fluorosis and is bad for teeth.

Which studies are correct? Of course I cannot say for certain as I never done the studies. I am not going to blindly ignore the scientists, doctors and dentists who says fluoride is dangerous and actually bad for teeth.

Hmm, i have read the research, looked at the information, looked at the studies. Those who link flurosis are based on concentration. They are not based on fluroide yes or no. This is VeRy well documented. Unfortunately I have to withdraw from this now, as you clearly haven't read any papers at all on the topic just the headlines. All peer reviewed accepted articles acknowledge the effects of flouride ( not fluroidation) in the role of fighting decay. If you can't accept that, then the very basics of the well documented pathways and acientific process are lost on you.
 
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I like flouride and would be mightly upset if it wasn't in my water. Sometimes I don't think there is enough in there, so if I am drinking a glass of water I squeeze abit of toothpaste in and give it a mix when no one is looking.
 
They way I look at it some have said it is good for you, some have said is not good or bad for you and some have said it is bad for you. I then think why would would the doctors, dentists and scientists who are saying fluoride is dangerous do so? What is their motive for saying fluoride is dangerous?

Answering a question with a question! Smooth, brah.

No but seriously, you are just picking what you like the sound of ultimately aren't you? As you don't possess the knowledge to make a choice that you know 100% to be correct.

What about the doctors, dentists and scientists that say it isn't good or bad, or the ones that say it's good?

What specifically has made you decide that you want to believe the ones that say it's bad?

Based on the assumption that multiple apparent professionals have all said it's good for you, bad for you and neither then it seems that it is at least contentious, so what is it that's pushed you to the choice you made?
 
Out of interest OP what do you use to brush your teeth currently?
Additionally, have you investigated the potential harm which is caused by your silver fillings at all?
 
Answering a question with a question! Smooth, brah.

No but seriously, you are just picking what you like the sound of ultimately aren't you? As you don't possess the knowledge to make a choice that you know 100% to be correct.

What about the doctors, dentists and scientists that say it isn't good or bad, or the ones that say it's good?

What specifically has made you decide that you want to believe the ones that say it's bad?

Based on the assumption that multiple apparent professionals have all said it's good for you, bad for you and neither then it seems that it is at least contentious, so what is it that's pushed you to the choice you made?

I think the positive studies could have been influenced by people who make money out of fluoride. Money creates greed. Look at the tobacco companies they knew for a long time tobacco was dangerous to health. They kept it hidden for a long time.
 
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Out of interest OP what do you use to brush your teeth currently?
Additionally, have you investigated the potential harm which is caused by your silver fillings at all?

I use couto mint toothpaste

Yes I know about silver fillings. As I replied earlier I don't have the money to get them removed. If I did they would be gone.
 
What is that based on? What makes you think lobbying is the reason why fluoride is used?

Again, why did you choose that standpoint over the others?
 
Actually fluroide makes very little money for anyone, not when we talk about public health programs and the fluoridation of water.
Its incredibly cheap to fluoridate water, it gives dentists much less work, and leads to a great deal of fewer operations under general anaestetic which are damned expensive and have the side effect of a few deaths each year.

There are actually very few lobbying groups for pro-fluoridation of water also. The professions when asked tend to state that fluoride lowers decay, as it does, but topical effects and dietry control are better than water fluoridation.

You really don't seem to have done any actual reading on the topic bar the headlines and a few google searches. You do realise all the european countries who do not fluoridate water still advise the use of a fluroide toothpaste? You know the two are not linked in any fashion?

Additionally if you ever have those silver mercury releasers replaced, watch who does them and the tehnique they use. The mercury levels in your body will increase for a while due to its release on removal, but longterm low dose release will end.
 
[..] If Omega 3 fish oils are good for the brain as seen on our adverts then there must be an opposite. There must be things bad for our brain.
[..]

1) Adverts are not reality.
2) The existence of something does not prove the existence of the opposite.
3) The existence of the opposite would not be evidence that any particular substance is that opposite.
 
Actually plain water on its own can kill you too. So maybe we need to look again at the whole idea of pumping the stuff into people's homes ;)

There have been quite successful attempts to get people to sign a petition to ban water, most famously by Penn and Teller. The rule is that you have to tell the truth. You can spin it like a top, but you have to tell the truth.

So...call it dihydrogen monoxide, state that exposure to it can be fatal and so on. Have serious-looking people speaking against it. Have professional-looking articles about how dangerous it is. Say that it kills thousands of people every year. Then let the marks know that, shock horror, some food companies add it to your food to cut their costs and increase their profits! Ban this deadly chemical!
 
Is this not general discussion where we often have topics similar like this discussed?

I may get passionate but when somebody who will not move on their viewpoint once it is made accuses me of not moving on my view point I find it a bit pot, kettle and black.

well you've made several wildly inaccurate statements then when corrected just ignore it and carry on.
 
How is my statement stupid? Look at the warning on the toothpastes. They are basically saying if you swallow more than teaspoon full of toothpaste consult a poisons center. A teaspoon full is enough for you to have to consult a poisons center? They are telling you fluoride is poisonous. I don't care if they are diluting it. They are diluting a poison and putting it on our water.

You know there are lots of things that if taken in the wrong amount are bad for you, but otherwise alright.
 
No don't use fluoride toothpaste since finding out about the dangers.

A new study published in the Journal of the American Dental Association confirming fluoride as a toxic substance that actually destroys teeth, particularly those of developing young children and babies

Hmmmm ... Members of what association would benefit from a boost of income if the amount of tooth decay requiring treatment went up if fluoride was removed from the drinking water ...
 
I think ennogs and the anti-fluoride sentiments, quackery and mumbo-jumbo in this thread have given me cancer. Of the Brain.

I'm going to bed now, but not before I brush my teeth with Fluoridated water and toothpaste.
 
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