Poll: Should we close the 'Post your Picture Here' Threads?

[D.P.]

Well what you could do is provide feedback on the ones you like and why and equally the ones you don't like and why.

Personally Ray, An Exception, mrk and various others on here share lots of their work and I for one appreciate it. Not only does it give me a standard to aspire to but I just enjoy browsing other photographers work.

What I don't remember ever seeing from you though D.P is any of your work shared on here for us to view. Maybe I've missed it and apologise if I have, but I'd find it hard to criticize someone for posting too much of their work, if I myself shared nothing.

There are many reasons for that.


Firstly, I don't have too much time to put photos online and post them in threads on OCUK because I don't see any value here.

One doesn't recieve critique from posting on ocuk, and there are just not bough professional photographers, especially of the nature kind. While in person I know people who work full time as natire togs who don't mind sharing a few minutes of their time now and then. I also get critique through other channels such sales, stock, other forums now and then. I don't need begginers without any experience saying a photo is good as it doesn't help me at all.


I have also have spent a lot of time in learning self critique, studying the art and science behind successful photography to know why somehotos work and some fail. Understanding from a neurocognitive psychological. Stand point how a human brain processes an image gos a long way to explaining composition,modesty and lighting issues that generate more rewarding photos.


I don't post my commercial work on public forums when they are being sold. If customers are paying for work I feel it is disrespectful to allow the same photos to be available for free. Furthermore, most of the successful stock work is utterly boring photos (abstracts and textures). If someone wants to see my most successful top 10 photos then they are all easily replicated. I don't post my nature work on stock channels.


I am also working on a larger future plan for which I want to maintain my best work in secret. In the future I may also have a webpage released for some of my work to be purchased from.

 

[D.P.]

And to be clear again, I did not criticize anyone for sharing too many photos. My point was if you post 30 photos in a thread then you won't receive detailed critique. Post 1 photos and explicitly ask for critique and you will be much more likely to elicit a response.

 

[Raymond Lin]

So you shoot zero personal work?

All your shots are secret and stock images?

Link to the stock image site and when is this secret will be revealed? I'll add it to my diary.

 

[olv]

Understanding from a neurocognitive psychological. Stand point how a human brain processes an image gos a long way to explaining composition

I love it when you talk dirty.

 

[D.P.]

I posted this work in progress in the summer, never finished it because I could not be bothered to re-process the photos to get crops that work at 16:9 so the compositions rarely work.

https://vimeo.com/43574873

Didn't receive a single comment back then!

 

[Ksanti]

I don't really get it. You say you don't have the time and you don't get anything out of posting up your images here, but you're happy to hav 11k posts on OcUK, a fair chunk of which are spouting exactly the same arguments about the wonder of Nikon APS-C sensors over and over again to people who have nothing to do with your photography?

 

[D.P.]

I don't personally see any value in posting my images on OCUK for critique, no.
There are no full time professional nature photographers for starters.
Furthermore, I don't see online forums as the best environment to generate honest and valuable feedback. I mentioned that in the other thread with some reasons. I don't need inexperienced people telling me a photo is good, I don't need people with a personal vendetta saying a photo is bad, I don't want o publish full resolution photos and I want a personal discussion.


I see ocuk photo forum as a place to discuss new camera rumors, the latest sensor reviews, the state of the industry and financials, new lenses and thier reviews, techniques, gadgets, technology, general geek stuff. I really don't see it as a place to get critique, I have other sources.

I also can fairly admit that much of my work doesn't meet my own Standardbreds that I have set for myself. If I only want to post my best work then that doesn't leave much photos to post. I don't want to post any subpar work because I may know the flaws.
Also, the nature of nature photography (pub intended) is that it can take a long time to get the photos that you want. You have no control over the lighting, the presence of animals, or their behavior or location. Many photo trips I am out for 8 hours and come back with nothing. I can plan whole weekends away but be dodged by bad light. I have some photo work in hose,tie that I really want to do but there are only a few weeks in the year when the lighting is appropriate, I can't make it out this year so that is one more year gone by. I really want to get to southern Utah in winter because their is better lighting, but since I work full time and have the typical Us vacations loo wane I just don't have the time to get over there. Nature photography is not like weddings at all!

 

[Raymond Lin]

Deja vu, just like when asked what was your keep rate.

Are you sure you are not planning a career in politics?

 

[Columbo]

There are many reasons for that.

Firstly, I don't have too much time to put photos online and post them in threads on OCUK because I don't see any value here.

But you have time to post long drawn out replies talking about higher brain function?

One doesn't recieve critique from posting on ocuk, and there are just not bough professional photographers, especially of the nature kind. While in person I know people who work full time as natire togs who don't mind sharing a few minutes of their time now and then. I also get critique through other channels such sales, stock, other forums now and then. I don't need begginers without any experience saying a photo is good as it doesn't help me at all.

Nobody needs feedback from others online users but you know what......its fun to share your work and even more so to share some of the background behind the images.

I have also have spent a lot of time in learning self critique, studying the art and science behind successful photography to know why somehotos work and some fail. Understanding from a neurocognitive psychological. Stand point how a human brain processes an image gos a long way to explaining composition,modesty and lighting issues that generate more rewarding photos.

You can quote science & maths until your heart is content, it doesn't wash I'm afraid as something just doesn't sit right here.

I don't post my commercial work on public forums when they are being sold. If customers are paying for work I feel it is disrespectful to allow the same photos to be available for free. Furthermore, most of the successful stock work is utterly boring photos (abstracts and textures). If someone wants to see my most successful top 10 photos then they are all easily replicated. I don't post my nature work on stock channels.

I don't understand how any photographer can exist on a professional level in today's climate without a digital footprint. Everybody professional I know personally has one, every top and in demand photographer has one, even utterly garbage photographers have one. Why would you not embrace these mediums to gain exposure to your work and increase revenue opportunies.

I am also working on a larger future plan for which I want to maintain my best work in secret. In the future I may also have a webpage released for some of my work to be purchased from.

What? Why wouldn't you get your work out there immediately? The market has pretty much hit saturation point already for tog's and its only going to get worse in the coming years.

I find that a pretty bizarre strategy if I'm honest and have always found that sitting and waiting for the perfect point never actually materialises.

 

[-|ScottFree|-]

I agree with DP, online critique from random forum members is arbitrary at best. We all want our work to improve to become better photographers, but its not that hard really.. is it?..

I like portraiture so I'll look at the work of the people who inspire me and break it down. Light position, location, make-up, clothing etc!! If I can create similar results then I'm on my way to getting to the point of where I want to be...

 

[Ksanti]

It depends on when you started to be fair, Mancubus. I know plenty of photographers with next to no digital footprint who make plenty off of their work or have plenty of success - they have relationships with interior designers, galleries, agents etc. that mean they really don't need to waste time on garnering an internet following. I met David Yarrow recently and he instantly springs to mind.

 

[Raymond Lin]

What you are saying is:

Your client work is out of bounds
Your stock images are boring
Your personal work is not up to standard
You don't value online critique

No one is asking you to post every single photo you have. No one is asking you to post images you are not happy with. But I am not convinced that out of the hundreds and thousands of images that isn't for client or stock, not one is up to your standard...

What does that mean?

Which brings the question that if none of your personal work is up to standard, is your client work up to standard too?

If your client work is up to standard then surely, surely some personal work would pass your "test".

What are you afraid of? Really?

p.s. IMPORTANT, I am not expecting to be knocked out of the park, it is just it would be nice to see some images from everyone, especially as someone who is so prominent on this part of the board. May be it comes down to your idea of "don't value online critique" as your argument would be you value people who make a 100% of their living out of their photography*. So you don't think any of us are qualified to crit your work as they are beyond reproach. Putting the shoe on the other foot, I think we would like to see some work from you, anything, not as evidence that you are capable, but it would be nice that's all. I am also a little offended too if you think no one online is qualified to critique your work.

It's like the saying, "You can talk the talk but can you walk the walk"

*(a separate argument as I know some photographers who make their living out of photography frankly are not very good, they may be a good businessman to run a business but when I look for critique, I look for artistic critique, not their business expertese, the ability to make a living solely on photography has no or little bearing on how good a photographer they are)

 

[Raymond Lin]

I agree with DP, online critique from random forum members is arbitrary at best. We all want our work to improve to become better photographers, but its not that hard really.. is it?..

I like portraiture so I'll look at the work of the people who inspire me and break it down. Light position, location, make-up, clothing etc!! If I can create similar results then I'm on my way to getting to the point of where I want to be...

For example, with yours, we can ask about the ring flash you used, colour gels, textures applied.

All these are useful, and none of those are critique. Sometimes its good to share a photograph, not necessarily to get critique.

 

[An Exception]

@Dp
I'll start by acknowledging you don't really value critique here, but considering your above post talks of light or lack of good light, I feel I may offer some useful critique.

Most of your pictures in the video look like they have been taken in midday sun. Midday sun is often difficult to make look interesting. I think if your going out in midday you should be on the lookout for interesting textures, leading lines. The choice of camera angles all look similar, I think you could add interest if you got lower, and mixed it up a bit.

Why not get out of bed early, or go out later in the evening to get some pleasing light to add some variety?
I don't see much if any use of backlighting. But also also with the sun behind you, you will have plenty of opportunity to find compositions from interesting shadows, leading lines, repetition, geometry, framing, anchors points etc.
I can however see you have used some geometry/layers in your compositions.

I think the video didn't get a comments because while the pictures are ok, they are not interesting, they don't ster people enough to tap on the keyboard.

You live in a really interesting part of the world, you have all the ingredients you could ask for to make some really interesting pictures.
I remember back in my Canon days, that the below guy's work was interesting, and think it's probably your kind of style?
http://www.imperialstudios.biz/Landscapes/Mountains/12098427_TXwnn#!i=1492443020&k=FpB3TBp

On a side note, I like the last picture in the vid, but it's looks like straitness is slightly off. However I appreciate you finally posting some pictures.

 

[D.P.]

But you have time to post long drawn out replies talking about higher brain function?

Writing a reply takes 2 minutes, taking a photograph I am proud of might take 6 months, and then a another 6 months to get off my backside to process it.

Nobody needs feedback from others online users but you know what......its fun to share your work and even more so to share some of the background behind the images.

Whenever I have made threads in the past I normally tried to explain the background. I have done the whole online thing a lot on the past, used to be very active on Flickr etc. I have just outgrown that stage of my photo-development. I work for myself, I want to improve my own techniques and my own portfolio through my own processes.

yes, giving something to the OCUK community would be good. This is why I mentioned that we could maybe add a set of threads to discuss different techniques such as post processing, composition, studio light etc. to try to create a valuable knowledge-base and help beginners as well as experienced people.

You can quote science & maths until your heart is content, it doesn't wash I'm afraid as something just doesn't sit right here.

I don't get at all what you mean here? Art and photography are well studied within science. You may want to dream of a deeper meaning but when a human looks at an image a computer is processing photons, the architecture and algorithms of that computer have a profound effect on how the human consciousnesses perceives that image. That is why some photos work, other do not. That is why composition is critical. There are sound neurological reasons why a horizon should be level, why compositions should be balance, why cutting limbs off the photo edge is distracting, why placing subjects in some compositions feels natural and in other unnatural, why lighting is so important, why HDR can look so fake but at other times very natural. Artists have know this for centuries, I don't know why some photographers bury their heads in some pseudo-philosophical claptrap.

I don't understand how any photographer can exist on a professional level in today's climate without a digital footprint. Everybody professional I know personally has one, every top and in demand photographer has one, even utterly garbage photographers have one. Why would you not embrace these mediums to gain exposure to your work and increase revenue opportunies.



What? Why wouldn't you get your work out there immediately? The market has pretty much hit saturation point already for tog's and its only going to get worse in the coming years.

I find that a pretty bizarre strategy if I'm honest and have always found that sitting and waiting for the perfect point never actually materialises.

Maybe I just don't give a damn about being a commercial photographer? I have a successful day time job that pay well. It would be very arrogant to ever think I could make more money in photography than my profession.
And it is not about the money anyway.

Fundamentally I don't want to change a hobby that I enjoy into a profession where I am stressed to pay bills on time and put food on my table.
Not everyone wants to be a full time photographer. Keeping a clear separation between work and pleasure is important to me. You just seem to be assuming that I want to become a famous photographer and set up a successful photography business. I simply want to have fun taking photos to the best of my abilities, and pushing those abilities as far as I can over the course of my entire lifetime. I don't care about my photos now, I want to have many decades of fun taking photos, and hopefully when i am 60 I will be better than I am now.


you are also wrong about professionals and having online galleries. E.g., Thom Hogan does not public display his work online except for teaching photos.


My master plan is future looking, but I would hope that when I am 50 or so I can retire early from desk work and take my photography more seriously, with the security of a sound finances (e.g. no mortgage). Even then it will not be selling photos per se. With time and money I hope to move into expedition photography.

My short term plan is a website that I will put together in October. I will be taking a month off work to spend to spend with my wife, between spending quality personal time with her and trying to capture black bars in Shenandoah, I will put together a website. Even for that I had some big plans but wont have time this year to see that come to fruition.

 

[D.P.]

@Dp
I'll start by acknowledging you don't really value critique here, but considering your above post talks of light or lack of good light, I feel I may offer some useful critique.

Most of your pictures in the video look like they have been taken in midday sun. Midday sun is often difficult to make look interesting. I think if your going out in midday you should be on the lookout for interesting textures, leading lines. The choice of camera angles all look similar, I think you could add interest if you got lower, and mixed it up a bit.

Why not get out of bed early, or go out later in the evening to get some pleasing light to add some variety?
I don't see much if any use of backlighting. But also also with the sun behind you, you will have plenty of opportunity to find compositions from interesting shadows, leading lines, repetition, geometry, framing, anchors points etc.
I can however see you have used some geometry/layers in your compositions.

I think the video didn't get a comments because while the pictures are ok, they are not interesting, they don't ster people enough to tap on the keyboard.

You live in a really interesting part of the world, you have all the ingredients you could ask for to make some really interesting pictures.
I remember back in my Canon days, that the below guy's work was interesting, and think it's probably your kind of style?
http://www.imperialstudios.biz/Landscapes/Mountains/12098427_TXwnn#!i=1492443020&k=FpB3TBp

On a side note, I like the last picture in the vid, but it's looks like straitness is slightly off. However I appreciate you finally posting some pictures.

You know on that trip I was out of bed at 5am every day well before sunrise, driving in the dark to get to locations, hiking through forest in the dark with the threat of bears. What do you get in 10 days of pre-dawn starts in Yellowsone? Nothing much. You have to live there and repeatedly go out time and time again. You know what happens when you are just driving back to camp to have a mid-day siesta - you see animals everywhere by the side of the road, midday sunlight.
As for compositions, that is also a limitation of time constraints. It is illegal to approach any wild animal in a NP, and approaching a bear will typically not end well for the photographer. A full time professional who goes out day, after day, after day will eventually get the composition with the lighting that is desired. As a tourist you don't have that probability.


I do almost all of my photography at sunrise or sunset. When you work that doesn't leave many opportunities. And it is not just the time of day, that is easy to control. It is the weather. I wanted to capture the Tetons and for a week I was setting the alarm at 4:30 and driving 1 hour to favourite spots, setting up tripods before the sun was rising. Without any clouds in the sky there is just no interest in the photos. Was still was when I spent 3 weeks in the canadian Rockies and wildfires ensured that you could not see any of the scenery. Simialr with the wildlife, 5am starts every day (in the car at 5am), scanning all the best spots for wildlife, asking the rangers for the best locals, checking in the daytime for footprints to see where they would be - nothing. I then go hiking in the day and come back to the car to see a moose trotting down the hotel carpark infront of a hundred Japanese tourists... It is not for want of trying, but nature photography takes a lot of time, patience, skill and luck.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Surely, of all the time you have been there, there is one up to standard.

What about other kinds of photography? Other than nature. What about your travels? Your trip to other parts in the states?

 

[-|ScottFree|-]

For example, with yours, we can ask about the ring flash you used, colour gels, textures applied.

All these are useful, and none of those are critique. Sometimes its good to share a photograph, not necessarily to get critique.

Absolutely right!

 

[D.P.]

Surely, of all the time you have been there, there is one up to standard.

What about other kinds of photography? Other than nature. What about your travels? Your trip to other parts in the states?

Look, over the next weeks I will promise to post more photos.
The biggest problem is not posing, but finding the time to process.

Have a Pitka

and a Moose (taken at 6am after a week of going to a secret pond every day pre-dawn):

and a Polish sunset

 

[Columbo]

It depends on when you started to be fair, Mancubus. I know plenty of photographers with next to no digital footprint who make plenty off of their work or have plenty of success - they have relationships with interior designers, galleries, agents etc. that mean they really don't need to waste time on garnering an internet following. I met David Yarrow recently and he instantly springs to mind.

Yeah I suppose thats fair point, word of mouth and reputation will bring a lot of work in. However its pretty hard to do it without one these days especially if you don't have a reputation good enough for word of mouth to be good enough.