Show us your kitty cats

Is a small lump around where a kitten had their first vaccination a common thing? I've got an appointment at the vet tonight to check it out but they just called and said that it's probably a reaction to the vaccination, but if I wanted to go anyway then I can.

It's a small hard lump which is causing zero pain whatsoever for the kitty. Any advice?

Quick photo because why the hell not :D

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FoxEye said:
Everyone I know who has had cats and let them outdoors has lost one or more to traffic. Cars & trains mostly.

Let's face it, most of us don't live on a remote island where it's 100% safe to let their cats outside.

Is it better to let a cat outside and have it die prematurely, or let it live a safe, pampered life inside? With a lot of attention and love why shouldn't an indoor cat be happy?

Or you could buy a kitty leash and take her for walkies :p Something I'd probably do if I had a cat as I have absolutely no concern for my self-image :p My family did say they'd disown me, however...
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Personally I feel it is better to let a cat live the life it wants to live. If that means it faces more dangers but is happy and living life to the max, then I will deal with the heartache if something bad happens. My two cats are brothers, and like chalk and cheese. One loves to be out and will be out all day, the other loves to sleep! He sleeps indoors a lot, and never really goes far when he goes outside - Usually to the garden to 'his spot' where he sleeps a bit more! :p But, crucially, he has the freedom to do so.

I will not keep my cats indoors because of my own fears, it is not fair on them. If I do not live in a suitable area, I don't have cats because keeping an outdoor animal indoors is, in my opinion, cruel. Cats are predators, and designed to have a territory and hunt it. Even domestic cats have this innate nature.

Secondly, there is not a cat alive who will not be happy to go outdoors if the door is left open. The people saying their cats are happy indoors are those who have purposely kept them indoors from kittens. But I bet if the doors are left open, their cats would go out and explore. Sure, it would be tentative at first because they will be nervous - all cats are when exploring a new place and it can take weeks for them to go further than the back garden. But it is part of their development process and as they get more confident they start to explore a little further.

Regarding cats and foxes, I have never known of a cat being troubled by a fox. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence of foxes attacking cats, but the science and research simply does not support it. Generally they will leave each other alone, or the cat will be the aggressor and see the fox off it's territory. That is not to say a fox could not or has not killed a cat, but the general concensus seems to be a fox will not risk an altercation with a predator like a cat unless it is absolutely necessary or the fox is desperate for food. Being a wild hunter as opposed to a well loved domesticated one, a fox wants easy prey and will not want to expend more energy in hunting it than it will likely get from eating it and it will certainly not want to risk life threatening injuries in the process (IE blindness from scratches, infection from bite wounds etc).

The trouble is with a lot of the anecdotal evidence is plain:

Person sees a fox in the area one night.
Persons cat gets injured/goes missing/killed.
Person puts 2 and 2 together and gets 9.
Fox gets the blame.

In reality, it could be a whole host of other reasons but the fox gets the blame. I remember the Telegraph publishing an artile years ago about urban foxes killing pet cats. The entire thing was anecdotal, and even the supposed eye witness story was totally out of keeping for the behaviour of foxes. She supposedly witnessed a 'pack' of foxes attacking her cat. Foxes don't hunt in packs, they are solitary animals. The only actual expert they used in their article totally refuted the entire content of the article!

There are very few incidents corroborated with evidence of foxes attacking cats. So I am happy to let my cats come and go as they please. I am more concerned about the penis who lives further down the street who uses the estate like a race track!

We don't keep our children indoors all of their life because of what bad things may happen to them, do we? I have the same outlook with cats.

Regarding indoor cats never knowing the outdoors and not missing it, this is fallacy in my opinion. They have never known it by force, that force is primarly the fear of their owner. If all of the indoor cat owners on here are so confident their cats have no interest in going out, how about you leave your doors open every day for a week and see what happens? ;)

For those who have a pedigree breed and then keep them indoors, I feel this to be a bit selfish. Again it is all about the owner. Owner wants a particualr breed - why? Because they like it. Said owner petrified of losing that investment from theft or premature death because it has cost them a lot of money. Owner keeps cat(s) indoors to protect their investment based on their fears. Sorry, but it all seems selfish to me somehow.

To conclude, I think it is to each their own on what approach they take to pet ownership and I am sure indoor cats are well loved. But personally I do not feel they have full lives.

On a separate note, I don't like the idea of catteries because my one cat is very sensitive (bless him). Being away from home is distressing for him. The other cat, mid you, loves a bit of adventure! We use a guy we have used before from a place called Animals at Home (http://www.animalsathome.co.uk/ ). It is a franchise, I believe, but we have had great service. Basically he comes twice a day, to feed and water them + give them any medication they need. In the evening he draws our curtains and turns a couple of lights on and in the morning he does the reverse. He empties / cleans the litter tray and he even puts out the bins for us too. When we come home he makes sure there is fresh milk in the fridge and a full report on what he has done and observed with our cats for the time we have been away.

I think last time we had him for two weeks and it cost somethng like £145. I am not sure what catteries charge to be honest, but we were more than happy to pay it.
 
ScarySquirrel said:
Is a small lump around where a kitten had their first vaccination a common thing? I've got an appointment at the vet tonight to check it out but they just called and said that it's probably a reaction to the vaccination, but if I wanted to go anyway then I can.

It's a small hard lump which is causing zero pain whatsoever for the kitty. Any advice?
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Yes, very common for there to be swelling around injection points. Should be nothing to worry about, just keep an eye on it. It should go down in a few days.
 
I took in a feral cat a while ago, he is so awesome, a real local celeb. Spend his day in the local primary school sitting on desks while the kids are in lessons then plays football with them at lunch time. He comes to the pub, club and any late night parties, real social butterfly :p he also walks for miles, I fitted a g-paws to him and before the battery ran out he had covered over 9 miles in one day. I love him, such a dude.

I give you, Gus

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- the day I let him in after he spent two days crying in the rain outside my door...
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- he is very vocal, this is him in the morning after spending his first night on my sofa
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- keyboard warrior!
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Gus is awesome! :)

I would invest in a G-Paws but with Tony being a Ragdoll cross...he rarely goes further than the sofa :p
 
BuffetSlayer said:
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You are entitled to your opinion, but having personally saved my ex's family cat from a fox, TWICE, means I'm certainly not going to risk it.

Do you also think it is selfish to make a child wear a bike helmet when they don't want to, just because you are worried they might get hurt?

/strawman :p
 
@BuffetSlayer

We can and have bred animals to have desirous traits. We've done it with just about everything from cows and sheep to dogs and cats. You can disagree with the practice if you want, but there it is.

It has been speculated that domesticated cats will continue to lose their hunting instinct as many breeds already have. Even today, some breeds almost completely lack the ability to fend for themselves and are dependent on their owners.

We can and we will continue to influence the development of many species. If you find that selfish, that's fine. But you simply have to accept many people disagree. Myself included.

A good owner cares for and cherishes their animal. There is no stipulation that you have to let them roam free to be a good owner.
 
Making a child wear a helmet... is not locking them in a box ;)

At least try to use valid comparisons :p

The only comparison there is not allowing the child to leave the house... ever... so no social life, no school, no social development (other than internet-social ;) ), no experience really... just because you're scared they might fall off their bike ;)

Schroedinger only took it one step further... at least that was just a thought experiment ;)
 
The other thing is that wild dogs have territories and roam freely too. As do wolves. And they hunt too.

We've removed a lot of this behaviour from domestic dogs. They don't hunt or get to have their own territory. We don't let them fight it out at night for their own patch.

We only let them out on a leash or to run around the local park. Occasionally they get to go to the beach. But they aren't free to go where they please, for a variety of reasons.

There's no logic to making cats a special case. Let's face it, most animals do not have total freedom of movement or territory.

And lastly, think of the bird life and other wildlife that cats massacre. In nature the number of cats would be much, much lower. It is certainly *not* natural to have so many cats competing for such small territories and being left to kill so many other creatures.
 
ScarySquirrel said:
Is a small lump around where a kitten had their first vaccination a common thing? I've got an appointment at the vet tonight to check it out but they just called and said that it's probably a reaction to the vaccination, but if I wanted to go anyway then I can.

It's a small hard lump which is causing zero pain whatsoever for the kitty. Any advice?
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Lola has had this both times she's had her jabs. It's a reaction to the vaccination. The vet said if it just went down in a few days it was fine, but if it kept happening year on year they would start injecting her in different places, as repeated reactions to vaccinations in the same place can, in some/rare cases lead to cancer.
 
krooton said:
You are entitled to your opinion, but having personally saved my ex's family cat from a fox, TWICE, means I'm certainly not going to risk it.
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I would be interested to hear of the circumstances in detail. I have had cats all of my life and never had one that has had issues with foxes. Cars, dogs, other cats and even themselves yes. But foxes no. Maybe I got lucky, or maybe you got unlucky?
 
FoxEye said:
The other thing is that wild dogs have territories and roam freely too. As do wolves. And they hunt too.

We've removed a lot of this behaviour from domestic dogs. They don't hunt or get to have their own territory. We don't let them fight it out at night for their own patch.

We only let them out on a leash or to run around the local park. Occasionally they get to go to the beach. But they aren't free to go where they please, for a variety of reasons.
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Dogs are capable of killing each other as well as humans. It is quite right they are kept under tighter control as in most cases any family dog is capable of inflicting serious injury and even though they are supposed to be domesticated, they all have that underlying potential.

FoxEye said:
There's no logic to making cats a special case. Let's face it, most animals do not have total freedom of movement or territory.
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I think when an animal is capable of causing serious injury, the risks are far higher. Cats pose no notable risk to other people, and only mild risk to each other. Sure they annoy people by crapping in their gardens, but they dont attack children or maul adults do they?

FoxEye said:
And lastly, think of the bird life and other wildlife that cats massacre. In nature the number of cats would be much, much lower. It is certainly *not* natural to have so many cats competing for such small territories and being left to kill so many other creatures.
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Yes, and if we didn't have domesticated cats we would have ferral ones, and a cat population explosion because they breed like wildfire. You only have to go to any Greek island to see that. You think the local wildlife would do better? Or are you alluding to exterminating wild/ferral cats like we have in bygone days?

The bottom line is ecological systems adapt. Other than dogs and humans, domestic cats are at the top of the food chain in their environment, ecologically speaking. But if they are removed, other animals move in and eat the creatures you mention anyway. One such animal would be the fox. When one animal diminishes, it is usually the case that another predator will take over because they share common prey, so trying to argue that letting cats out is damaging ecology is a bit of a straw man. I'm sure the ecology would change, but for better or worse when hordes of foxes move into your area because of an abundance of food due to less cats?
 
If you want your cat to be an outdoors cat, that's fine. I just don't believe it's the correct or "kind" choice. Mine* will be an indoor cat, for a certainty.

Although I would seriously consider a cat leash and taking her walkies. Being the crazy cat man of the neighbourhood would suit me nicely :p

*theoretical future cat is theoretical.
 
FoxEye said:
If you want your cat to be an outdoors cat, that's fine. I just don't believe it's the correct or "kind" choice. Mine* will be an indoor cat, for a certainty.

Although I would seriously consider a cat leash and taking her walkies. Being the crazy cat man of the neighbourhood would suit me nicely :p

*theoretical future cat is theoretical.
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I thought you wanted a discussion on the points raised above, it seems not.

Sorry my mistake :)

Good luck with your theoretical future cat.
 
Here is Ronnie again helping me to write. He is left handed like me

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He had bought me a present this morning - a near full grown pigeon from a nest somewhere - still got it's fluffy feathers.

He was searching for it for a while after I put it in bin

Dave
 
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