Siliconslave's how to make espresso thread

I need to buy an espresso machine.
Anyone any experience with the Breville Barista Express BES860XL. Pushing my budget but it comes with a burr grinder.


TBH, I have no clue how to make good espresso, I just know I love a good espresso. Currently use a stone top toy but try to buy fresh beans which I grind at the supermarket (normally a good choice here in Oregon and when I lived in Switzerland) and then freeze the bag, keeping no more than 1 months supply.

The breville is about $580 here. The gaggle classic is about $400 but of course I will need to add a good grinder so may not be much cheaper.

Are there many other options out there I should consider?

Also, how well do these machines hold their value?
Since I'm a newbie I need a machine suitable for begginers. The BES860XL comes with a double wall filter for simplicity and single wall for more advanced users.

Also there is a Rancilio Espresso Machine - Rancilio Silvia for about $630, but I would need a grinde.
 
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Either the Gaggia or the Rancilio + good hand grinder will give better results than the Breville, which will deliver a drink almost entirely unlike the 'good espresso' you crave. The cost will be about the same and you will be introduced to the world of real espresso. If you like it you will soon be spending as much on a new grinder as you spent on your espresso machine anyway.
 
mnemonix said:
Either the Gaggia or the Rancilio + good hand grinder will give better results than the Breville, which will deliver a drink almost entirely unlike the 'good espresso' you crave. The cost will be about the same and you will be introduced to the world of real espresso. If you like it you will soon be spending as much on a new grinder as you spent on your espresso machine anyway.
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Yeah, checked reviews and the Breville doesn't look great (although got very god reviews on amazon whcih I stupidly based my initial reearch on

Prices are in USD:

Gaggia 14101 Classic Espresso Machine, Brushed Stainless Steel $390
Rancilio Espresso Machine - Rancilio Silvia $630

Are there other machiens to consider in this kind of price range?
What are the real world differences? Is one easier to use, is one quicker to heat up and make an espress? Is one going to be longer lasting?


Baratza 585 Baratza Virtuoso Coffee Grinder $200
Gaggia 8002 MDF Burr Grinder with Doser, Black $240
Baratza Virtuoso Preciso Coffee Grinder $300
Rancilio ROCKY Rancilio Burr Grinder without Doser, $340
Rancilio ROCKY Rancilio Burr Grinder with Doser, $350

Any other grinders worth considring?


I can get the Rancilio Silvia + Rancilio ROCKY Rancilio Burr Grinder without Dose for about $960.
This is pushing my bugdet. Is that worth the extra over a Gaggia classic + GaggiaMDF grinder for $630?

I don't mind paying the extra if there is definite improvements and longer lasting construction.
i normally like to avoid the upgrade cycle of buying low-end, then low-middle, then high-middle
and then high end and prefer to jump straight to the quslity long lasting product which saves a lot of
money and gives the ebst results straight up. But the top end machines + grinders are very pricy so I guess I am looking at either a low or middle end and seeing if I will need to upgrad ein the future.
 
From the sounds of things we have similar purchasing preferences and I went with the Gaggia Classic and a second hand Starbucks Barista grinder.

The Gaggia is great once you get a proper metal tamper (£25 ish here, the stock bit of plastic they supply is useless) and standard, non-pressurised basket (£6 or so I think, the pressurised one forces all the coffee through a single hole and out a special nozzle thing). Others have replaced the steam wand with one from the Rancillio Silvia but I get on ok with the standard one.

The good thing with these proper machines is it's easy to get parts, not sure how that would be with something like the Breville.

I don't regret my Gaggia Classic purchase and am happy with it now, I am already considering a better grinder though.
 
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The Rancillio is a single boiler just like the Gaggia so there's very little to choose between them actually. In fact the Gaggia Baby is even cheaper (and basically the same as a classic minus a couple of features) and can also make decent espresso - providing the grinder is up to it which is true of any espresso machine. I used a Classic for 10 years and could never see why the Rancillio commanded a premium. The main difference is the material used to make the boiler, if you really care to know. Anything better than these will be a different machine altogether, with an E61 grouphead or a double boiler etc and will cost significantly more.

For around $100 you could get a decent 2nd hand grinder on ebay, even up to the level of a Mazzer Super Jolly or as I suggested, a decent hand grinder such as a Zassenhaus, so to make good espresso once you understand the technique could cost you less than $500. The Rocky, MDF and Baratza are 'ok' they're the minimum you need if you're going to go out and buy a new motorised grinder. So, you could buy a new Rancillio and & Rocky, they are well paired and will make decent espresso, though in some circles even they are considered 'beginner equipment' and you could do better for less money if you do your research and shop around.
 
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The Gaggia babe is more expensive than the Gaggia classic here in the US.

Not too keen on looking second hand. I would never buy something second hand without testing it in person and since I don't know what I am doing yet I wont be able to test it.

I want an electric grinder to try to save time. I heard they are also easier to use to get consistent grinds.
 
I keep meaning to make a note of the coffee machine we have at work but never remember when i'm actually tehre, for me it's just a case of getting the coffee in the filter and whacking it in the machine tbh. customers never seem to care enough :P
 
just recieved my columbian oporapo and brazilian espesso perfetio from hasbean... only tried them as lattes so far but by lord they make such a nicer drink than the crappy ily medium and the marks and spencer pre ground ive been using... also think i managed to get the grind perfect on the perlox on my second grind which im happy about
 
Landy said:
just recieved my columbian oporapo and brazilian espesso perfetio from hasbean...

...also think i managed to get the grind perfect on the perlox on my second grind which im happy about
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good stuff :) Its worth playing with the grind on an ongoing basis, making fine adjustments as the coffee ages etc.

I've just had my second 8.9 order though and while its better than the first I've cancelled my subscription. Its not a bad idea but I think their freshness and quality needs some work tbh - the problem is Hasbean and SM spoil me somewhat with the quality of their coffees and blends.

Will have to try small batch next though I think :)
 
SM? I wouldn't mind giving someone else than Hasbean a try.

Given up with the Ilusion Natural, it smells bad even when being ground. Had to give the grinder a good soaking to get rid of the taint!
 
Siliconslave said:
good stuff :) Its worth playing with the grind on an ongoing basis, making fine adjustments as the coffee ages etc.
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I've had a cold, so its not been until this morning i've been able to taste them both properly and although there both lovely as an espresso as a latte (my prefered drink) they both lack a bit of the strength needed to cut through the milk (maybe its me doing something wrong?), they still taste nice though and Hasbeans description is spot on, i still compare every coffee i have to my local coffee shop though, there latte is really strong, but not bitter, kinda dark chocolatly and smooth, can't seem to find anything that matches that strength and quality and the bugger won't tell me what they use except its a blend...
 
Landy said:
I i still compare every coffee i have to my local coffee shop though, there latte is really strong, but not bitter, kinda dark chocolatly and smooth, can't seem to find anything that matches that strength and quality and the bugger won't tell me what they use except its a blend...
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What's the coffee shop? It could be one of the Union roasters blends, they tend to come out pretty strong and cut through milk well (apparently - don't do milk in coffee) It'd be worth trying some of the espresso blends if you haven't already, the Jailbreak is very good and has a nice deep flavour to it, or for something with a bit more oomph try blake or breakfast bomb. I hate to sound like a fanboy but honestly try Squaremiles RedBrick as well...

I really don't need one but for some reason handpresso's Auto is very tempting:

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except for the fact it uses pods. The idea of nonchalantly brewing espresso while cruising down the, ehem, autobahn at 90+ is both insanely stupid and incredibly tempting :D
 
Square Mile's Redbrick blend has recently changed. Not tried the new version yet. Wasn't hugely fond of the old version though.

As for the Handpresso Auto, I love the idea of it. The original Handpresso was initially pod only, but they did eventually produce a ground coffee version. They may well do another version of it.
 
Siliconslave said:
What's the coffee shop? It could be one of the Union roasters blends, they tend to come out pretty strong and cut through milk well (apparently - don't do milk in coffee) It'd be worth trying some of the espresso blends if you haven't already, the Jailbreak is very good and has a nice deep flavour to it, or for something with a bit more oomph try blake or breakfast bomb. I hate to sound like a fanboy but honestly try Squaremiles RedBrick as well...
:D
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its just a family owned shop not a chain or anything and yeah after ive used these two im going to look at the blends and i have to admit the redbrick does sound excellent, thanks mate
 
Any tips on brewing the Machacamarca with an aeropress? I don't seem to be getting a lot of flavour if I'm honest. Using about 19g beans, inverted method with a 10sec stir and brew for 50secs. Grind is pretty fine as its pretty hard to push through... Just a case of needing more beans perhaps?
 
I just used the same method for Machacamarca as all the other blends I've tried.
Stir 20 seconds, leave to stand 90 seconds, coarse grind of approx 11 turns on the Porlex, really nice.
The only blend I've not liked from Hasbean is the Breakfast Bomb, even the smell is not good.
My favourite so far was their cheap blend, the Hasbean dot com. Love that one.
 
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