Siliconslave's how to make espresso thread

[f666]

Just bought the fellow opus, Have been hand grinding for years (feldgrind by knock)

The opus I have literally just opened and done some decaf. Seems really consistent. Was very reasonable, same price as my feldgrind I bought 6 years ago.

Of the two, i chose the opus as more compact and a bit more modern. Also James Hoffman recommended the opus close second to the df54 (which seems to have a clogging issue) and over the noisier baratza out of other sub 250 quid grinders. See video review, opus seemed to get a decent espresso result also. I think on balance fellow, if something goes wrong, would be more helpful.

I mainly v60 and occasional espresso.

 

[f666]

 

[iamgigglz]

Really liked the look of the Varia but this review put me off; the noise!
Also a power brick on the kitchen counter wouldn’t pass the WAF

 

[NickK]

If it’s choking it’s probably too fine a grind. Dial it back a little and try again. To be in the zone it’s usually like fine sugar or salt. If it’s powdery it’s closer to Turkish coffee and if it’s like sand it’s closer to moka pot sort of size etc. This can vary quite a bit though, depending on the beans, roast level, age and also mass/depth, portafilter and puck prep.

I know you’re aware but you won’t get great results from supermarket brand coffee. If buying from the supermarket I found good success with Lavazza Qualita Rossa beans as they were quite easy to dial in and consistent. I also like the blend for everyday as it has a little Robusta in it I think too.

Three things can cause choking:

1. Grind size too fine - some grinders are stepped in their adjustment and it can be between steps. Stepless grinders use a screw thread to provide the grinding adjustment so can fine tune in.

2. Freshness of roast and grind - the oils and moisture within the beans evaporates over time. 6 days for roasting and 6 minutes for grinding. A way to check this is make a grind, use 1/2 for a coffee immediately and then leave the other 1/2 out for 12 hours and make a coffee without changing the coffee machine settings.
Having said that - I will grind a supermarket beans for an entire week's worth in a sealed tin then use that for the day-to-day coffee with the Dehlia. Caveman I know.

3. Tamping - if you're tamping down too hard (especially with too fine a grind). If the puck falls apart due to being too dry and not being able to stay together with a moderate tamp, then look at the freshness rather than tamp harder.

I learnt all this from dealing with my Elektra manual and Mcap grinder. If the beans/grind is out just a little the elektra will sulk - either blocking or gushing. The issue with the elektra is it's spring loaded to provide the pressure hence both end up with high pressure mess.

 

[f666]

Really liked the look of the Varia but this review put me off; the noise!
Also a power brick on the kitchen counter wouldn’t pass the WAF

Agree. I was looking for a varia until I saw this. Then started to see loads being sold on.

 

[Timber]

That James Hoffman video. I linked to that earlier in the thread, I'm sure I'm not the only one. Quite useful though. Albeit I don't understand why he's so anti-hoppers (EDIT: bellows even!!). Seems a basic simple way of keeping the grinder clean.

When I was looking I was choosing between the Sage, Opus & DF54. And I'd imagine all three would have been good choices. I was drawn towards the DF54 because of its performance at retention, or lack there of and the ease of changing grind size. In some of the comparisons it gets very close to the its older sibling; DF64. Essentially a smaller version of, which that same very heavy metal build quality and very simple one button control. And happy to report in the early first week of ownership it has no problems. I think it needs cleaning and TLC, but we'll see what durability is like.

My biggest gripe is relatively minor, but it easy to get coffee 'powder' under the unit. So keeping it spotless is harder. At least a hand grinder is very easy to clean and keep all the ground beans in the catch-cup.

 

[glitch]

Hoffmann is a coffee enthusiast, right? So what does a coffee enthusiast not like? Stale coffee, unpredictable grinder output and difficulty adjusting your grind settings - things that can come from using hoppers. It also makes it nigh-on impossible to change beans on the fly when you have a hopper full of the damn things, not to mention cleaning it properly when beans are in said hopper.

Most of his audience are going to be single-dosing/grind-on-demand their beans, probably swapping out beans relatively frequently and generally lean towards a grinder that does all those things well.

I don't really see the link between a hopper and keeping a grinder clean... mine are spotless and they don't have hoppers, so unless I am doing something wrong... I don't get the issue!

 

[Timber]

Hoffmann is a coffee enthusiast, right? So what does a coffee enthusiast not like? Stale coffee, unpredictable grinder output and difficulty adjusting your grind settings - things that can come from using hoppers. It also makes it nigh-on impossible to change beans on the fly when you have a hopper full of the damn things, not to mention cleaning it properly when beans are in said hopper.

Apologies my bad, I meant to type 'bellows' not hopper. He mentions in the video not liking the bellows that some of these grinders have.

 

[glitch]

Ah, yes - he doesn't like bellows either. And I get that, they are a terrible way to ensure you don't have any grind retention and often cause more problems than they solve as coffee gets into places it shouldn't go.

Short, sharp taps work best if you have to use one, but you shouldn't really need to use one at all.

 

[Timber]

Ah, yes - he doesn't like bellows either. And I get that, they are a terrible way to ensure you don't have any grind retention and often cause more problems than they solve as coffee gets into places it shouldn't go.

Short, sharp taps work best if you have to use one, but you shouldn't really need to use one at all.

Ah OK, but surely on a well designed grinder the bellows just encourage the grounds out of the chute, i.e. not blow them into any electronics? Unless I'm missing something, the concept makes sense.

I haven't used the DF54 bellows much, but will heed the advice.

 

[shroomz]

I've got a sage dual boiler and smart grinder combo to play with for 6 weeks. I think I'm finally getting the hang of making tasty espresso and steaming milk. Currently on a single origin Brazilian from Blind Owl that was all the good stuff I brought with me, I've only made it in v60 and feel I've potentially made things harder for myself than I strictly had to for learning with a more traditional espresso blend.

Anyway, I'm having so much fun I'm considering buying one for home. I'm 90% set on a df54 or df64 for the grinder. For the espresso I think I'd go for the same sage dual boiler option it seems to have by far the highest features for the price and seems a really good modding community exists online. I've seen the Hoffmeisters video on the topic but was curious if ocuk had any other ideas to throw in the mix to consider? I might be able to stretch to 2k for the espresso machine, I'm slightly interested in the Decent but I think I'll only appreciate the options maybe 10% of the time, usually I'll just want a tasty consistent drink without extra faff so I'm probably not the right customer (much as I like the idea). Another option is the profitech 600 maybe or another dual boiler? Not sure having not seen it in person or worked it.

Do any of them get made for lefties?

 

[glitch]

Ah OK, but surely on a well designed grinder the bellows just encourage the grounds out of the chute, i.e. not blow them into any electronics? Unless I'm missing something, the concept makes sense.

I wouldn't say it there is a danger of getting into the electronics as that would mean the grinder is really badly-designed. It's more they get behind moving parts where grinds wouldn't usually find themselves and they can then start to release oils and gum up the works.

A well-designed grinder will take a small amount of grind build-up as part of its design and accomodate for that. The Niche Zero and Duo are excellent examples - after a few uses, you start to get genuine zero retention as grinds have found their way into the places that machining tolerences leave and there's nowhere else for them to go. You typically won't see exchange as these places are one-way streets, which cleaning will handle and then you start the process again.

The better the grinder, the less space there is for grinds to accumulate. Bellows as part of the design just seem to be a solution to a problem that shouldn't exist and when people start hammering on them like they are playing the bagpipes, coffee grinds will get into all sorts of weird places.

 

[rickjames]

Got the Encore ESP arriving today - looking forward to it and for the sake of Aeropress get the feeling it is fairly forgiving

 

[Timber]

I wouldn't say it there is a danger of getting into the electronics as that would mean the grinder is really badly-designed. It's more they get behind moving parts where grinds wouldn't usually find themselves and they can then start to release oils and gum up the works.

A well-designed grinder will take a small amount of grind build-up as part of its design and accomodate for that. The Niche Zero and Duo are excellent examples - after a few uses, you start to get genuine zero retention as grinds have found their way into the places that machining tolerences leave and there's nowhere else for them to go. You typically won't see exchange as these places are one-way streets, which cleaning will handle and then you start the process again.

The better the grinder, the less space there is for grinds to accumulate. Bellows as part of the design just seem to be a solution to a problem that shouldn't exist and when people start hammering on them like they are playing the bagpipes, coffee grinds will get into all sorts of weird places.

Damn it, my rendition of The Black Bear is getting quite good...

In all seriousness, understood and thank you for the response. I think what confused me is that there are very well regarded budget/mid-level grinders like the DF64/83 that use bellows and I think it made sense to me. But then I am a total noob when it comes to this stuff. Interestingly enough I have come across after-market makers who make bellows for all kinds of grinder, including the Niche models!

 

[glitch]

I've got a sage dual boiler and smart grinder combo to play with for 6 weeks. I think I'm finally getting the hang of making tasty espresso and steaming milk. Currently on a single origin Brazilian from Blind Owl that was all the good stuff I brought with me, I've only made it in v60 and feel I've potentially made things harder for myself than I strictly had to for learning with a more traditional espresso blend.

Anyway, I'm having so much fun I'm considering buying one for home. I'm 90% set on a df54 or df64 for the grinder. For the espresso I think I'd go for the same sage dual boiler option it seems to have by far the highest features for the price and seems a really good modding community exists online.

The Dual Boiler is the best machine for the price, by a country mile. Learn to open it up and understand how it all works, flip your seals biannually, do the Slayer mod and you have a machine that will do anything and last years.

Home-Barista has the best guides and the most helpful Dual Boiler nerds.

I've seen the Hoffmeisters video on the topic but was curious if ocuk had any other ideas to throw in the mix to consider? I might be able to stretch to 2k for the espresso machine, I'm slightly interested in the Decent but I think I'll only appreciate the options maybe 10% of the time, usually I'll just want a tasty consistent drink without extra faff so I'm probably not the right customer (much as I like the idea). Another option is the profitech 600 maybe or another dual boiler? Not sure having not seen it in person or worked it.

Do any of them get made for lefties?

I don't know any machine that is specifically designed for left-handed folks... had never thought about that before, to be honest!

Decents are decent, but you have to learn to love the way they work and, most importantly, the way they sound. I was this close to buying one, but decided I couldn't live with that sound on a daily basis. Go see a Decent Ambassador and get a tour of one if you are interested - really worth doing and they have ambassadors all over the country.

Whatever you do, buy the absolute best grinder you can afford and spend the rest on your machine. If you've got £2k to spend, 50% of that on the Sage DB and then the rest on a really good grinder.

 

[glitch]

In all seriousness, understood and thank you for the response. I think what confused me is that there are very well regarded budget/mid-level grinders like the DF64/83 that use bellows and I think it made sense to me. But then I am a total noob when it comes to this stuff. Interestingly enough I have come across after-market makers who make bellows for all kinds of grinder, including the Niche models!

Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but I would say that grinders like the DF range are not that well designed. They have some aspects seriously lacking over 'better' grinders and are ultimately built to a very aggressive price point, with corners cut in the build quality and design. You get a lot for your money... but you get more from other grinders that are only a small amount more expensive.

And yes, you can get aftermarket bellows for the Niche - I have them on my Duos. Much more useful for anti-popcorning than flushing out the machine, in my experience.

 

[Timber]

Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but I would say that grinders like the DF range are not that well designed. They have some aspects seriously lacking over 'better' grinders and are ultimately built to a very aggressive price point, with corners cut in the build quality and design. You get a lot for your money... but you get more from other grinders that are only a small amount more expensive.

I've not been in the hobby for that long and I can see that's a hot take!

Interestingly when I looked at the DF64 its more expensive price vs. the 54 did make me stop. I.e. the old 'for only £150 more' I can get the Niche. And for me was just too much to be spending on a first electric grinder. Where as there isn't as much to compete with the 54 at its price point. But when and if upgrading I may well be in the market for a better grinder like the Niche (or even a 64 if I get on well with the 54).

 

[glitch]

The original DF64 was awful - poorly built, badly engineered, clunky to use and had a bunch of low-end components. But it had 64mm flat burrs and would take SSPs, so everyone went bananas and called it the Niche killer despite it not being anything of the sort. Most of the hype was around the ability to swap burrs relatively easily, probably a first in an inexpensive grinder.

The Gen 2 wasn't that much better, but still had the fanatical following of the first version thanks to it being a cheap-ish 64mm flat burr grinder. Then we got the DF64V which by all accounts was a good improvement on the original 64, but that has since been superseded by the DF64V V2... which fixes all the problems the V1 had.

Burrs make the grinder, but the grinder still needs to be built around the burrs it has installed or is capable of using. All these extra bells and whistles like variable RPM, plasma generators and similar are just gimmicks IMO and do nothing to improve the grind quality or the taste in the cup.

 

[Musty Pie]

I've not been in the hobby for that long and I can see that's a hot take!

Interestingly when I looked at the DF64 its more expensive price vs. the 54 did make me stop. I.e. the old 'for only £150 more' I can get the Niche. And for me was just too much to be spending on a first electric grinder. Where as there isn't as much to compete with the 54 at its price point. But when and if upgrading I may well be in the market for a better grinder like the Niche (or even a 64 if I get on well with the 54).

I had my heart set on the DF54 either version for a long while, but then when speaking to an online coffee shop rep on chat about options they suggested a Eureka Mignon Zero Z55s - Single dose flat burr grinder, quiet, and generally been great for me.

Give it a look, lots of reviews of similar versions (Mignon Zero) online.

 

[Timber]

I had my heart set on the DF54 either version for a long while, but then when speaking to an online coffee shop rep on chat about options they suggested a Eureka Mignon Zero Z55s - Single dose flat burr grinder, quiet, and generally been great for me.

Give it a look, lots of reviews of similar versions (Mignon Zero) online.

Thank you for the suggestion, but I've got a just over week old DF54 here so not planning on upgrading for a while.