Skyline

I'm still agreeing with dmpoole, personal enjoyment (in my opinion) is the only criteria which counts.

If only being applied to you, then yes, but whether or not you like something doesn't determine it's general worth.

There are genres of music I don't like, but I don't think the genres themselves are inherently bad. Same can be said for food, I don't like gammon, but that doesn't make gammon bad.
 
Here is my post from another film thread which is very similar :)

I've always argued that there are those that go to the cinema for no more than all out entertainment (which is fine ) and those who go looking for an experience

I see films of that nature as a bit of fun, something I'll forget about after I leave the cinema. Like I said, for many that is more than enough to warrant their admission fee.

Here is the conclusion from my dissertation on Michael Haneke

Production teams within Hollywood are far from foolish; they are just as aware as Haneke, or debatably even more aware, of the ongoing abyss within mainstream cinema. The distinction between Haneke and Hollywood is apparent in how they address the abyss. Mainstream cinema deliberately chooses to welcome and conform to it because consumption is the preference at the box office juxtaposed to provocation.

Haneke argues that Hollywood’s strive for audience satisfaction has never been the function of drama, stating that his films incorporate audience manipulation raping the viewer into interaction with the narrative. In doing so, empowering his audience to recognise their role in the ‘game of manipulation’ and relate it to their personal life experiences.

Haneke acknowledges raising more ‘insistent’ questions than ‘false’ answers at the conclusion of a film goes against the ‘consensus’ of the majority, this demonstrates that his productions do not prioritize audience satisfaction. Mainstream cinema’s emphasis on audience satisfaction has resulted in a ‘consumable commodity’ in which ‘going to the movies’ is part of mass culture. The ‘aesthetic of astonishment’ provides the audience with a spectacle of entertainment, guaranteeing box office success.

With reference to mass culture, art critic Clement Greenberg states that mainstream cinema:

Predigests art for the spectator and spares him the effort, provides him with a shortcut to the pleasures of art that detours what is necessarily difficult in genuine art''

Part 2

Audience A
Hollywood is so concerned with audience satisfaction that it feels obliged to pre-test its productions by exhibiting them to preview audiences before general release. In doing so, they receive feedback and alter the film with regards to how it can be made more ‘entertaining’

Evidence of this is apparent in the conclusions of Adrian Lynn’s Fatal Attraction (1987) and Ridley Scott’s Blade Runner (1982) , which is now available in a ‘Directors Cut’. Ridley Scott claims the directors cut to be the superior version of Blade Runner but had to compromise this as a means of audience satisfaction, to ensure maximum profits at the box office. The directors cut granted Ridley Scott complete artistic control. Blade Runner is the story of ex-cop Rick Deckard, (Harrison Ford) who is re-hired to eliminate genetically engineered humans known as ‘replicants’. As the narrative progresses, Deckard begins to have feelings for one of the replicants, which inevitably complicates his mission. The theatrical release (1982) provides the audience with a conventional ‘happy ending’ in which both characters escape proclaiming their love for each together. The directors cut (1992) replaces this scene completely, and puts an emphasis on ambiguity, striving for audience interaction, as the two lead characters exit in a lift with no further explanation of what the future holds. Another significant difference between the theatrical release and the director’s cut is the removal of the didactic explanatory voiceover, which accompanied the whole duration of the theatrical release. The thought of Haneke ‘compromising’ one of his productions to please the masses is quite frankly comical, and it is here where the distinction can be drawn between auteur and box office success.

A demonstration of how far Hollywood are willing to go to satisfy their audience can be seen in Kevin Macdonald’s The Last King of Scotland (2006), an evocative depiction of Uganda under president Idi Amin. We are informed that the story is ‘inspired’ by true events. The term inspired empowers the director to manipulate the audience by confabulating the events as a means of entertainment.

Protagonist Dr. Nicholas Garrigan (physician to Idi Amin) played by James Mcavoy, finds himself in a perplexing situation as Amin installs trust in him and promotes him to his personal advisor. Dr Garrigan witnesses scenes of mass genocide and abhorrent acts of cruelty including the ostracization of his third wife, Kerry Washington, after giving birth to an epileptic child.

In the climactic scene, Dr.Garrigan (based on British soldier Bob Astles) escapes as he boards a plane full of Israeli hostages ready to spread the word of Amin’s barbaric regime. This depiction is a far cry from the truth. Conversely, Bob Astles was imprisoned for six and a half years for his role in Amin’s regime.

‘Inspired’ by true events provides justification for Kevin MacDonald’s portrayal of ‘false answers’ in which the spectator is ‘disempowered’ into ‘consumption’ as a means of avoiding ‘provocation’ to adhere to ‘consensus’.

This shows that the narrative in mainstream cinema often abides by chronological linearity and causality in which all enigmas must be answered to assure audience satisfaction. In A Practical Manual of Screenplay Writing, Lewis Herman argues:

‘Care must be taken that every hole is plugged; that every loose string is tied together, that every absence is fully explained; that every entrance and exit is fully motivated’

Hollywood is set apart from its competition due to its commercial scale and universal appeal. For the majority, entertainment alone is enough to warrant their admission fee. Audiences aren’t encouraged to ‘work’ but to merely consume, and judging by Avatars success at the box office, they are more than happy to do so.

Audience B
At it’s best; film should be like a ski-jump. It should give the viewer the option of taking flight, while the act of jumping is left up to them

Haneke steers away from didactic explanatory narratives as he strives for ambiguity. Haneke forces his viewers to interact with the narrative to come to their own interpretation of the enigmas presented throughout, whilst provoking the audience to ‘kick start their intelligent and emotional engines, into motion and production’ 71 Fragments of a Chronology of Chance is by no means a coincidental title, ‘it’s only via fragmentation that a story can be told honestly’

This is a contrast to the ‘disempowerment’ of the spectator as proposed by Haneke who states that in mainstream cinema, we always pretend to know it all. Haneke argues that we never know what the truth is, there are a thousand versions of the truth and ones interpretation is dependant on perspective

Personally, I enjoy a combination of the two, a film that is very entertaining but makes the audience work. Hence why I'm very much looking forward to seeing Inception at the IMAX on Monday.
 
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If only being applied to you, then yes, but whether or not you like something doesn't determine it's general worth.

There are genres of music I don't like, but I don't think the genres themselves are inherently bad. Same can be said for food, I don't like gammon, but that doesn't make gammon bad.

Gammon!? NOM NOM NOM
 
I just score films in binary, 1 and it's on and 0 and it's off.

Easy mode and a clearly superior way of rating films compared to you other noobs :p

Reviews of this film are not sounding good. Therfore I'm going to wait for it on Blu-Ray.
 
I just score films in binary, 1 and it's on and 0 and it's off.

Easy mode and a clearly superior way of rating films compared to you other noobs :p

Reviews of this film are not sounding good. Therfore I'm going to wait for it on Blu-Ray.

You're going to pay £15+ for a film that's getting horrific reviews when you could spend £6 to watch at the cinema :confused:
 
Assuming I "pay" for it and not rent or borrow the film from someone else. Then no, I wouldn't "pay" for it :p
 
Seen this last week, thought it was absolute mince! If i was more of a cheeky ******* i might have asked for my money back!

Don't waste your money.
 
I just score films in binary, 1 and it's on and 0 and it's off.

Easy mode and a clearly superior way of rating films compared to you other noobs :p

Reviews of this film are not sounding good. Therfore I'm going to wait for it on Blu-Ray.

Good lord, please do not waste your money buying/renting this on Blu Ray.

In fact, even if you get it for free don't bother. Time is money.
 
Jesus, so every film which you don't enjoy is 0/10 as well then?

There are different levels of enjoyment... obviously if i don't enjoy a film at all and completely hate it then yes, it will receive a zero (as if I score any of the films I watch, I'm a professional film critic don'tyknow!).
Also, I get the whole 'it's an experience' or 'it's educational/eye opening' type films, but typically, if not invariably, these will also be films that I enjoy. Now, does enjoyment mean a huge grin on my face? No, of course not, I don't sit through Schindler's List laughing like a loon... but I still value it as a worthwhile film and 'enjoy' what it gives me when I watch it. I'm stretching the word 'enjoy' more than I'd like to here but this whole thing started as a ridiculous bit of semi-nonsense from Richdog and now I feel the need to defend my posts more than I perhaps should.
 
You're going to pay £15+ for a film that's getting horrific reviews when you could spend £6 to watch at the cinema :confused:

Well, without meaning to point out the obvious (we are all somewhat IT-savvy here, right?), when a film is released on Blu-Ray then someone turns it into a nice .mkv very quickly. I don't think further explanation is needed.

this whole thing started as a ridiculous bit of semi-nonsense from Richdog and now I feel the need to defend my posts more than I perhaps should.

You're defending your posts because Eulogy pointed out the flaws in your logic. :p
 
You took that out of context because there is obviously a scale of enjoyment from 0 to 10.

After second thoughts I got Shawshank Redemption mixed up with another film and it gets 7/10.

You're missing my point though dude, of course there is a scale of enjoyment of 0/10, but enjoyment isn't the only thing that makes up a film is it? the component parts of a film club together to make a film "enjoyable", no?

Good storyline, acting, music, visuals etc, all come together to give you your enjoyment factor. If not what are you basing enjoyment on?

That is my point, that you seem to skip all the factors of the film to give it some rating based on how many times you can watch a film over and over again before you get bored of it?

Some of my favourite all time films are ones that I wouldn't watch multiple times, yet the experience I had when watching them made them great films. Sure I like a good action flick as much as the next guy, no real storyline, just guns a 'blazin, maybe these types of films are more replayable (because you don't really have to pay attention to them). But I wouldn't rate Rambo above Inception for example.
 
You're missing my point though dude, of course there is a scale of enjoyment of 0/10, but enjoyment isn't the only thing that makes up a film is it? the component parts of a film club together to make a film "enjoyable", no?

OK lets put this another way and I'm going to use a really heavy band that I'm hoping you won't like but I like a lot - Listen

I reckon if I asked you how much you liked them, you and maybe most of you on here would vote zero (unless you're into that music).
However if I asked you for your honest scores on how good the drummer is, the lead guitarist is, the lead growler and how well he growls and what the stage show was like then you would be scoring completely different because they can play their instruments and they do put a good show on.
Taking all that into account you could be now giving this band, whose music you completely hate, a score of 6.5 which you all know is complete rubbish.
The ONLY factor is the enjoyment of the music and that's how I judge films.
If a film is boring and doesn't appeal then no amount of CGI, great acting or music score will redeem it.
 
OK lets put this another way and I'm going to use a really heavy band that I'm hoping you won't like but I like a lot - Listen

I reckon if I asked you how much you liked them, you and maybe most of you on here would vote zero (unless you're into that music).
However if I asked you for your honest scores on how good the drummer is, the lead guitarist is, the lead growler and how well he growls and what the stage show was like then you would be scoring completely different because they can play their instruments and they do put a good show on.
Taking all that into account you could be now giving this band, whose music you completely hate, a score of 6.5 which you all know is complete rubbish.
The ONLY factor is the enjoyment of the music and that's how I judge films.
If a film is boring and doesn't appeal then no amount of CGI, great acting or music score will redeem it.

Seeing as how I have like 5 Children of Bodom albums I think you might be surprised! xD

I think you'll agree that music is a much more diverse and opinionated subject than films, as such the comparison isn't entirely fair is it? You get a lot more people agreeing on which films are good/bad than which musicians are good/bad because for every film that comes out there is a whole lot more music released.

I hate things like the X Factor, pop music, all that crap, but I can still look at it objectively and say "Well, I don't like it, but that singer has got talent, or the lyrics are good, or they're raping that classic song again with another cover".

Again, if you liked the individual parts of the film, or indeed music, then the chances are this is reflected in your enjoyment of it. You said yourself you thought the storyline, acting, effects etc of Inception were good, but you rated it 0 for enjoyment, and as such the film got 0/10. I find it hard to process how you got to that point if i'm honest.
 
Damn that was poor. I don't mind cheesy movies like Independence day if the alternative is this.

No real story or ending, and on top of that the script and characters wern't anything special, why bother.
 
Have to say that was rubbish, TV actors in a movie which is little more than a special effects showcase tied together with terrible acting and a lame-ass script.

And I love films like Godzilla, Independence Day, Transformers etc but this was just rubbish.
 
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