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Snow Sports Thread 2018-19

Discussion in 'Sports Arena' started by Jokester, Jul 21, 2018.

  1. Somnambulist

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 17, 2010

    Posts: 9,274

    Location: London

    The group going went this year and the year before so tbh if they say x1 jacket/pants is good enough I'll take their word for it.

    Doing some reading it does seem like it might be a good idea to go for a shell jacket + insulated mid + base vs an insulated jacket (as some of you suggested), both for versatility and also because I'd be able to use the jacket back here when it's just wet and horrible vs. having some ultra-warm thing I'd either only use once a year or end up selling if I didn't have enough of a good time to do a winter sports holiday again any time soon.

    There's soooo much choice it's a bit overwhelming, all I'm really sure about is that I want to cop some last-season stuff in the outlets.
     
  2. Somnambulist

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 17, 2010

    Posts: 9,274

    Location: London

    Also, I can either ski or snowboard... I have no idea which to opt for other than being told skiing is quicker to pick up but harder to get better, where as snowboarding is harder to pick up but easier to get to an okay level.
     
  3. Jokester

    Don

    Joined: Aug 7, 2003

    Posts: 37,708

    Location: Aberdeenshire

    When you’re a newbie snowboarder you’ll spend a lot of time on your arse so you’ll naturally end up a bit damp over the course of the day.
     
  4. Syla5

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 13, 2012

    Posts: 4,630

    Skiing is more natural, pointing in the direction you want to go, which is one of the key reasons it is quicker to pick up then snowboarding. However its also easier to go quicker as a skier much earlier on in your progression path, and I've seen it so often that newbie skiers think they can handle the speed and instead just wipe out or wipe people out.

    Snowboarding is slower to progress to a competent level but you will comfortable be linking turns in 2-3 days max and from there its all about time on the board. Its slower then skiing from a speed perspective just due to the nature of it and it takes a real effort to go honing around. Snowboarders wipe out and wipe people out as well, but much more often at a slower pace.

    There are pro's and con's to both.

    You will spend more time on your backside as a boarder, but as and when you do fall you don't risk your hardware going flying all over the place unlike skis, a small bonus.
    With skiing there is no post lift strap in faff ritual to deal with so unlike a boarder you can get off and go.
    This might not seem like much but the accumulated effort over a day can really wear down your energy, especially as a beginner.
    I see more snowboarders as they are learning falling over. You don't have 2 planks, you don't have poles, you rely on your ability to balance to remain upright (although as a lifter you should benefit from understanding the concepts of core bracing, body position etc to aid your stance and balance here).

    Also on every holiday so far I've been on by the end of the week there's always been more skiers in slings or casts then boarders. This is entirely anecdotal and entirely possible to be a huge coincidence.

    I am a snowboarder who has never skied, please take this information from that perspective, I am not anti ski or pro board, I am all for people doing what they want, this above is genuinely just what I have experienced.
     
  5. DereksDontRun

    Hitman

    Joined: Oct 23, 2013

    Posts: 615

    ^ to add to the above regarding ski vs snowboard learning.

    sure, skiing is a more natural direction and snowboarding is "weird" to anyone that hasn't skateboarded or surfed before, but it's also the progression of techniques that alters the learning curve.

    Skiing generally get used to balancing on the skis and then snowploughing to stop (pizza shape). Then snowplough turns to get used to weight transfer from one leg to the other. Once you're happy getting used to that, it's pretty much a "screw that" and lets parallel turn... Ignore snowplough and hockey stop to break, etc. So you're pretty much taught 1 technique that's pretty quick to get used to and thus you're quickly able to get down a beginner slope, turning where you want. Then it's a jump/step up to progress into better edge control to cope with steeper terrain.

    Snowboarding is different as it's pretty much the same technique from day one. You get used to balancing on each edge of the board to build up the muscle memory of standing over your toes and heels. Then it's working out how to turn the board from balancing over your toes to over your heels and vice versa... That's basically snowboarding... no matter the terrain, it's about changing the board from one side to the other and balancing over it... So, it's a weird set of movements to get used to, which can be taught in a variety of ways, but once you have the principles on a beginner slope it's effectively the same on a steeper slope, just managing the forces/balance a bit more accurately.

    So, yeah, for 4/5th of people, from stepping off a plane and getting down a beginner slope, it's easier on skis. But once you're moving up to slightly steeper slopes the incremental changes in technique is arguably less for a boarder.
     
  6. Amp34

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jul 25, 2005

    Posts: 28,394

    Location: Canada

    If you do learn to snowboard remember that boards don't have brakes... Don't take them off unless you’re on a flat surface and you’re sure is not going to slide somewhere... Runaway boards are far more common than you may think. They’re also a danger to other slope users as they can disappear like a rocket and they can be a pain to retrieve. Not that brakes on skis always work, but it’s a lot less common.:p

    And regarding injury, from experience it’s pretty much the same, boarders just have different injuries to skiers (although there are commonalities). The biggest factor in all of it is the fact most are beginners or inexperienced boarders/skiers, so take your time, but also remember that pushing yourself is how you improve.

    Have fun either way. Skiing is more practical, but from a fun/recreation perspective both have their positives.
     
  7. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 28,973

    The main differences comes down to a practicality between the 2. This has a bigger impact if you want to do any kind of of-piste, touring, mountaineering but does impact. Flat run out, gentle uphills, negotiating lift lines etc are all that much harder with a snow board. When you want to access powder fields then the ability to make easy high traverses on skis is real difference, as is the ability to skate out of the flats at the end of a powder descent.

    Skis are more stable and you are less liekly to fall. Injury risks tend to be a bit lower but you have a higher chance of screwing up your knees (snowboard more liekly to break wrists). Snowboarders suffer form a big blind spot and turning their head to look around causes balance/weighting issues (as a skier you need to give them a wider birth). You also have less edge so on stepper icy slopes there is less control. there is also some oddness when it comes to straight-lining etc., boards are not so stable when held flat and will catch an edge but it is trivial for a skier to tuck it down a steep straight shot to an uphill and feel safe and stable even as a begginer.


    Snowboarding is fun but it is no more fun skiing, just a lot less convenient all round. IF you become a good skier then you can pick up snowboarding in a few hours. I have occasionally rented a snowboard when spending the day with beginners. The inverse seems to be not as common, boarders have an issue with the independent legs when trying to ski. It is also fun to rent telemark gear for a laugh and a leg workout.


    If you ever get in to touring then snowboards become a real drag. It is possible with split boards but they are heavy, fragile., expensive and inefficient. At this point most snowboards learn to ski, especially whent hings become more mountaineering orientated because snowboard boots are less appropriate for mixed climbing compared to ski boots with crampons.
     
  8. mid_gen

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Dec 20, 2004

    Posts: 7,944

    Location: Düsseldorf

    Snowboarding hurts like hell the first couple of days until you stop falling over. If you're learning something icy, some hip/arse/wrist protection isn't a bad idea. I learnt in April in Austria and there was barely any snow left, gruelling, and not much fun. If you're in lots of nice fresh powder then not a big deal, falling is fun :)

    One major plus for snowboards imo, is that you can't get stuck at the top of some terrifying black run because you didn't plan your route or got lost :) Even a total snowboard newbie can sit on an edge or falling leaf down black runs, even if you're gonna annoy some people on the way.
     
  9. Amp34

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jul 25, 2005

    Posts: 28,394

    Location: Canada

    There's nothing stopping you falling leaf down any run on skis either, although it's not as commonly taught IME (normally you're just taught sideslipping). It's not exactly hard to pick up though!
     
  10. Somnambulist

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 17, 2010

    Posts: 9,274

    Location: London

    Thanks all, was away for a funeral so haven't checked the thread out for a couple of days. Given 95% of the group are boarding I'll probably be a sheep and go with the crowd.

    Re clothing, my skiing mate says for the top layers I should be looking at moutaineering stuff as it doesn't carry a 'ski tax' - true?
     
  11. DereksDontRun

    Hitman

    Joined: Oct 23, 2013

    Posts: 615

  12. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 28,973


    You can do the same on skis, takes the same skill level just to slip down sideways using edge control. The big advantage of doing it on skis is you have 2 edges instead of one,poles to help balance, independent legs, and you are totally symmetric. On a board it is a little harder to traverse across the slope, but once you've reached the edge easier to go back the other way for a beginner without the need to ski backwards. But fi you are on ice then the stability and extra edge control of skis makes you much less liekly to fall.

    If you fall when doing this on skis or boards there are some differences. A board is always attached so you have some means of regaining control when slide, but the board will tend to twist you around so you end up going head first down the slope and if the board does catch something can cause some leg damage. For a beginner skier with looser bindings the skis will liekly pop off early so there is a lower risk of leg injury but the main tool to slow down is lost (a more advanced skier would have their binding tighter so the gentle initial fall wont eject the skis). Without the skis then the person will more likely slide down feet first, but the real trick is to hold onto the poles (without the dangerous wrist straps, seriously cut them off), and use the pole end to do a self arrest. That does require more skill but is safest and effective, ensuring head is up slope.

    Its swings and roundabouts really .
     
  13. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 28,973

    The mountaineering stuff has a mountaineering tax instead.

    You can buy cheap ski gear because most of the time it doesn't matter too much if the ski clothes fail, just head back to the resort and get the apres ski going. Not that I advice crappy ski clothes.

    The mountaineering stuff doesn't have a budget category because jackets that aren't waterproof or get ripped easily because safety issues.


    If you are buying from TK maxx or whatever then you will only be getting budget ski gear. If you buy some high end clothes form the likes of Arcteryx then the ski and mountaineering gear is the same quality, same prices, mostly just a different cut and slightly different features. E.g. an Artery ski jacket will be a bit bulkier to accomodate extra layers, and have a pwder skirt, perhaps with an arm panel to hold a lift pass. The mountineeering clothes will have an athletic fit, stretchies arms. Mountineeering pants will have kevlar patches to protect form crampons, a ski pant might go high up the chest.
     
  14. Syla5

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 13, 2012

    Posts: 4,630

    Guys lets be realistic for a minute, he isn't going to be hitting up double black diamond runs, edge control arguments, and the techniques you are talking about are way way way down the road for Somnambulist.

    I would advise against Decathlon, cheap yes, so cheap they look like they would not last a week, and would be about as waterproof as wet paper bag after the first day. I could be wrong but would be surprised.

    If you are going to snowboard then 100% get a block of lessons before you go, and maybe even consider going a few times after that as well. If you can get on a Monday-Friday day course before the 19th December then Snozone have a deal on for £99 for the whole day.
     
  15. Somnambulist

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 17, 2010

    Posts: 9,274

    Location: London

    Thinking of this as my outer layer?

    I don't mind paying a bit more if I can use things for stuff other than snowboarding - don't really have a coat like this atm. Half price, in my manlet size.
     
  16. Amp34

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jul 25, 2005

    Posts: 28,394

    Location: Canada

    Something like that will do you just fine.
     
  17. Somnambulist

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 17, 2010

    Posts: 9,274

    Location: London

    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  18. McGray

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 8, 2008

    Posts: 4,276

    All good.
     
  19. Somnambulist

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 17, 2010

    Posts: 9,274

    Location: London

    Went for these in the end - had a higher waterproofing rating (15k vs 10k) and I'll no doubt be on my arse a lot so would probably benefit from that. Also ordered impact shorts and a couple of Buffs...

    Don't need too much else; a couple of ski socks, a couple more 3/4 length base layers and possibly a backpack (back protection y/n?) for taking water and carbs about, since that's what the others do.
     
  20. Furyus

    Hitman

    Joined: Sep 15, 2010

    Posts: 858

    Location: Weston-super-Mare

    those pants will be perfect! in terms of socks I'd suggest Stance! Honestly the best thing I've ever worn! only need about 3 pairs for a week or so, backpack I'd go a dakine heli bag they small and sit nice and tight on the back. As for back protection that's up to you, If you think you'll need it go for it, However I do think for the decent stuff it's expensive, But you can't really put a price on safety.