So is Sir Wiggo a cheat then?

[Chojin]

I wouldn't be surprised if Bradley Wiggins cheated and used any means necessary to win the Tour de France.

The funny thing about this is that I remember he very publicly called out Lance Armstrong on his doping, which kind of made alarm bells ring in my head like he was trying to detract attention from himself.

 

[Gerard]

http://www.rotherhambugle.com/2017/...jugglers-ashmatics-turn-worlds-best-cyclists/

http://www.rotherhambugle.com/2018/03/06/wiggins-make-comeback-team-emphysema/

 

[Destination]

Wiggins has asthma. He took asthma medication which was authorised by the relevant sporting authorities.

What exactly is the problem?

He seems to have been singled out, but a remarkable amount of the british cycle team seem to be asthmatic.
It is hard to pin down exact figures, but in the previous track events you saw several athletes male and female puffing on inhalers while on the warm up bikes prior to their races.

They make all be remarkable people tainted with exercise asthma, but wiggo is in the lead and he is there to be shot at.

 

[Roar87]

He seems to have been singled out, but a remarkable amount of the british cycle team seem to be asthmatic.
It is hard to pin down exact figures, but in the previous track events you saw several athletes male and female puffing on inhalers while on the warm up bikes prior to their races.

They make all be remarkable people tainted with exercise asthma, but wiggo is in the lead and he is there to be shot at.

Cycling can trigger exercise induced asthma easily in people who may otherwise not really have any asthma symptoms, it's not like these people struggle to breathe due to asthma on a daily basis but are also super athletes.

 

[Name]

Can they just make an exploiters/cheaters Olympics? people can take all the substances they like and have their own events!

 

[Ahleckz]

Absolutely a cheat. From what I heard, the medicine he was taking and the amount of it is for someone who would be very ill and struggling to go around their day to day duties let alone train for what he was doing.
He boasted in his book that he never missed a days training before the race, again not the actions of someone who needs such powerful drugs. I

He may have acted within the letter of the law, but they knew exactly what they were doing. Add this to the commitment from Sky's boss that they'll be whiter than white, it's not right.

Why drug cheats can come back to compete in sport, I do not know!

 

[FoxEye]

It is known what Wiggins did and it is not against the rules. Therefore it is not cheating.

Yup that really is all there is to it. Case closed.

If you later change the rules to be more restrictive, they don't retro-actively apply.

 

[Ugley_Matt]

Seems that, as in F1, the team that does the best is the team that reads and reads and reads and reads the rule book and gets a close to that line as possible, while remaining legal.

 

[Malt_Vinegar]

The difference is that, if they can prove they were getting TUEs illegitimately then they can nail them as the drugs are banned substances.
They know they were taking them, they have proof of it. So it would need a doctor to admit that he/she essentially faked the need for drugs, and then they would have results annulled. Pay back prize money, lose sponsors, and essentially ruin their careers.

 

[kitfit1]

Cycling can trigger exercise induced asthma easily in people who may otherwise not really have any asthma symptoms, it's not like these people struggle to breathe due to asthma on a daily basis but are also super athletes.

No doubt that is true
So why would a doctor prescribe Clenbuterol to a patiant who is "super Athlete" ? One would have thought that "super athlete" that has won hundreds of cycle races and trained for them all wouldn't have noticed before this point that they were asthmatic ? It's crap, always has been and always will be.

I'm 60 years old. Have always rode and raced motorbikes. I know over the years my back has been worse than when i was younger..........................................i know for a fact if i took drugs for my back and was caught for it, i'd be banned. Wiggins deserves everything he might be about to recieve.

 

[FoxEye]

No doubt that is true
So why would a doctor prescribe Clenbuterol to a patiant who is "super Athlete" ? One would have thought that "super athlete" that has won hundreds of cycle races and trained for them all wouldn't have noticed before this point that they were asthmatic ? It's crap, always has been and always will be.

I'm 60 years old. Have always rode and raced motorbikes. I know over the years my back has been worse than when i was younger..........................................i know for a fact if i took drugs for my back and was caught for it, i'd be banned. Wiggins deserves everything he might be about to recieve.

He can't be a cheat tho if he didn't break any rules. That is just not possible.

A cheat is somebody who breaks the rules in order to benefit in some way. Since no rules were broken he can't be sanctioned or be a cheat.

You might say he "broke the spirit of the rules", but that is neither here nor there. There are no sanctions for breaking the spirit of the rules. Rules are defined to precisely and legally define what is acceptable and what isn't.

If the rules need tightening they can be tightened. But you can't retrospectively apply the new rules to old races.

 

[Jimbeam3678]

I was watching an interview with a doctor when all the Sky/Wiggins thing first hit the news. The doctor stated that if Wiggins asthma was bad enough that he had to be prescribed Clenbuterol, then he would absolutely have been in no condition to take a brisk walk let alone ride a cycle race.
If that medically is true, then clearly Wiggins is a cheat and knew full well what he was doing and so did the Sky team

It's this kind of stuff which causes the confusion, have a read http://breathe.ersjournals.com/content/8/4/286

For whats it worth I think Wiggo took it as a just in case and it wouldn't do any harm if I didn't need. I think thats the attitude he took.

 

[kitfit1]

He can't be a cheat tho if he didn't break any rules. That is just not possible.

A cheat is somebody who breaks the rules in order to benefit in some way. Since no rules were broken he can't be sanctioned or be a cheat.

You might say he "broke the spirit of the rules", but that is neither here nor there. There are no sanctions for breaking the spirit of the rules. Rules are defined to precisely and legally define what is acceptable and what isn't.

If the rules need tightening they can be tightened. But you can't retrospectively apply the new rules to old races.

Mmmmmm, so you are saying all these super human athletes are actually asthmatic ? They obviously must be if they have to be prescribed Clenbuterol. Do you know what...............................how much faster would the world of athletics and cycling be if it was just full of normal fit people. I'ts amazing that in my world of sport we are even alive in the morning................................even more so when we we arn't even being paid to be alive.

 

[Jimbeam3678]

Mmmmmm, so you are saying all these super human athletes are actually asthmatic ? They obviously must be if they have to be prescribed Clenbuterol. Do you know what...............................how much faster would the world of athletics and cycling be if it was just full of normal fit people. I'ts amazing that in my world of sport we are even alive in the morning................................even more so when we we arn't even being paid to be alive.

Have. A. Read. http://breathe.ersjournals.com/content/8/4/286

 

[FoxEye]

Mmmmmm, so you are saying all these super human athletes are actually asthmatic ? They obviously must be if they have to be prescribed Clenbuterol. Do you know what...............................how much faster would the world of athletics and cycling be if it was just full of normal fit people. I'ts amazing that in my world of sport we are even alive in the morning................................even more so when we we arn't even being paid to be alive.

None of that matters.

What he took is known. What he took and the quantity he took is known and the dosages complied with the rules.

He can only be a cheat if he was taking something illegal or taking something in quantities that would be illegal, and therefore (logically) did not declare accurately what he had taken.

Assuming he has declared accurately (there is no evidence to the contrary)... he has not broken any rules.

He therefore cannot be a cheat. It really is that simple. You may not agree with it; you may say it breaks the spirit of the rules. Literally that does not matter.

 

[kitfit1]

It's this kind of stuff which causes the confusion, have a read http://breathe.ersjournals.com/content/8/4/286

For whats it worth I think Wiggo took it as a just in case and it wouldn't do any harm if I didn't need. I think thats the attitude he took.

No, it didn't cause any confusion in my mind. Have read loads of stuff on this since that post. If Wiggins was prescribed Clenbuterol, it was never intended as a "Just in case". He either needed it, in which case he shouldn't have been racing, Or it was was fully intended to help him in the race.

 

[Malt_Vinegar]

he has not broken any rules.

If it can be proven that he was falsely prescribed medicines that were on the banned list, when not needed medically, he cheated. That is a fact.

I am not saying he was cheating, i have no proof. But it is possible, you cannot deny that given the circumstances.

 

[Jimbeam3678]

Mmmmmm, so you are saying all these super human athletes are actually asthmatic ? They obviously must be if they have to be prescribed Clenbuterol. Do you know what...............................how much faster would the world of athletics and cycling be if it was just full of normal fit people. I'ts amazing that in my world of sport we are even alive in the morning................................even more so when we we arn't even being paid to be alive.

No, it didn't cause any confusion in my mind. Have read loads of stuff on this since that post. If Wiggins was prescribed Clenbuterol, it was never intended as a "Just in case". He either needed it, in which case he shouldn't have been racing, Or it was was fully intended to help him in the race.

I was trying to clear up your first post, specifically your first sentence, if you actually read the link it might help you understand why all these athletes have asthma. I'm saying Wiggo is whiter than white but he does have asthma as his medical records prove it years before he jumped on the Sky gravy train. The facts are out there to read if people took the time to research instead of reading the Daily Mail OMG headlines.

 

[FoxEye]

If it can be proven that he was falsely prescribed medicines that were on the banned list, when not needed medically, he cheated. That is a fact.

I am not saying he was cheating, i have no proof. But it is possible, you cannot deny that given the circumstances.

Sure. But without evidence that the prescription was falsified, the only conclusion we can come to is that, given the evidence to date, he didn't cheat.

To say he did cheat would require evidence of such falsification.

Otherwise you're in that whole "presumption of guilt", "no smoke without fire" territory. I like to think we are all innocent until guilty, but the reality is many will make up their minds just fine without any evidence at all, lol.

e2: If we're presuming Wiggins cheating, we should really presume all the teams cheat. As said by someone in the thread earlier, all the teams will be doing everything they can to gain an advantage within the rules.

Some teams may also be breaking the rules, but there isn't evidence for that.

We should therefore assume that all the teams are behaving in the same way. Why wouldn't any given team use all the advantages they can bring to bear?

 

[marl]

The whole thing is very sad and another blow against sport, especially cycling, makes you wonder if anyone anywhere is completely clean...