So the test driving begins - TT RS!

[Scania]

Nice review there Gibbo, its making me re-consider my views of it (not that I've either driven one or am likely to ever consider owning one mind you!)

Very interesting & informative I thought.... WTF Simon is on about I don't know - perhaps you should have included your old e34 for a bit of balance or something?

The killer is the price and the fact its a TT.

Pretty much sums it up, and to my mind, its off the list, yes?

 

[Simon]

All I said was I didn't really relate to it as I've not driven an Evo and every aspect was compared to one, also Gibbo has decided to buy a new car, none of these are an Evo.

Many car reviews you read will have a pool of cars that they discuss all in contrast to one another and many other cars, maybe I'm too used to reading EVO. I said that it read like an Evo vs rstt comparison rather than a review.


Definately interested in reading the comparison of the new cars though. Although the comment comparing summer tyres to winter ones was interesting.

 

[Simon]

Did it feel nose heavy? My mates TT V6 does, very nice car though and ultra smooth. Nothing on a 911 I guess though, the cayman S I recently went in was awesome in every way, the 911 is only going to be better.

Assuming you can tame that rear engine pendulum!

 

[Gibbo]

All I said was I didn't really relate to it as I've not driven an Evo and every aspect was compared to one, also Gibbo has decided to buy a new car, none of these are an Evo.

Many car reviews you read will have a pool of cars that they discuss all in contrast to one another and many other cars, maybe I'm too used to reading EVO. I said that it read like an Evo vs rstt comparison rather than a review.


Definately interested in reading the comparison of the new cars though. Although the comment comparing summer tyres to winter ones was interesting.

I am not a professional reviewer though and have never claimed to be. I am just posting my findings of a car on a motoring based forum because like fellow motorist here were all interested in different cars. I enjoy reading other members finding on cars and I am sure others do. OcUK motors is a great collective of information and none of us are professional reviewers but we all try to share our discoveries and help each other out where possible.

However I would love to work for EVO as am sure anyone else would, getting to drive amazing cars, write about them and get paid has gotta be the ultimate job, apart from Clarksons job anyway.

 

[Scania]

All I said was I didn't really relate to it as I've not driven an Evo and every aspect was compared to one, also Gibbo has decided to buy a new car, none of these are an Evo.

Many car reviews you read will have a pool of cars that they discuss all in contrast to one another and many other cars, maybe I'm too used to reading EVO. I said that it read like an Evo vs rstt comparison rather than a review.


Definately interested in reading the comparison of the new cars though. Although the comment comparing summer tyres to winter ones was interesting.

Fair enough, whilst my comment was slightly in jest, I - now - see where your coming from.

 

[Gibbo]

Did it feel nose heavy? My mates TT V6 does, very nice car though and ultra smooth. Nothing on a 911 I guess though, the cayman S I recently went in was awesome in every way, the 911 is only going to be better.

Assuming you can tame that rear engine pendulum!

Yes and no in a way, the very heavy and weighty steering could give this impression but I really liked the artificial weighting of the steering, if anything it felt spot on, it just lacked feedback but the car was giving me feedback through my bum.

However I'd say due to how it handled on the limit that yes it was nose heavy, approaching the limit it pushed wide, applying more throttle it pushed wider, been aggressive on the steering to try and make the rear step out well it still understeered wide, so yes this is all no doubt due to it been nose heavy. Afterall the engine is actually located over the front axle.

But saying this the front end did not start to slide until you were really pressing on, the amount of sheer grip on offer was very impressive, infact surprisingly impressive and when you got beyond this the car let go very progressively and in a very safe manner.

So I guess one could say yes it was nose heavy, but the handling and grip on offer are very impressive.

Basically after driving one I'd say not many other cars will keep up with one too easily, lots of grip, great powerband, infact then engine is equally impressive.

 

[Gibbo]

Nice review there Gibbo, its making me re-consider my views of it (not that I've either driven one or am likely to ever consider owning one mind you!)

Very interesting & informative I thought.... WTF Simon is on about I don't know - perhaps you should have included your old e34 for a bit of balance or something?



Pretty much sums it up, and to my mind, its off the list, yes?

I think we have to look past its not like TT's of old which were made as a style item and just for posers. These really are a very capable car, yes it still looks I guess far too pretty as it is a very pretty car.

Now I've driven one I will never under-estimate a TT RS on the road, especially when you consider how fast they are with some very simple remapping. I posted a video in other thread where a Stage 1 TT RS out accelerates a 540BHP M5 upto 150mph, now thats not to be sniffed at.

So yes very impressive indeed.

Off the list, yes at 40k, under 35k possibly not, but lets see how a 911 makes me feel, for me I have an inherent fear of the 911, engine in boot pendulem syndrome but shall see how I feel after test drives. I've been in enough 911's been pushed very hard and they are hugely capable.

 

[Housey]

Approach the 911 test drive with an open mind. It won't give you the kick in the nuts power delivery like a turbo car, the power delivery is very linear on a 911 but it keeps on pulling to the red line and sounds very nice with it too not least with a sports exhaust. The 997 hides it's rear end weight very well and I'd be surprised if it caused you any major issues on a road test or in most driving conditions. Where it can still be an issue is if you have to brake hard when the wheels are not pointing straight ahead or when you need to make a change in direction you perhaps weren't expecting. Coming off the power in a 911 when committed is usually where most 911's try to kill you but it's all about getting used to the car and once you are use to it it's less of an issue and you can slide the backside around quite easily once you become use to it. Having said this drive a Cayman and you can immediately feel a further level of stability offered by the mid engine.

The things that I believe stand out on a 911 are it's steering, less so on the C4 but still fabulous compared to most cars, its brakes and how they both stop and feel under your foot. Many people when they first drive a Porsche sports car complain about how rubbish the brakes are because of how hard they have to press them to get em to work, but all that shows is how overservoed most road cars brakes are. Get past this and get use to a bit of pedal travel and the brakes are brilliant. All the controls are fantastic too, steering of course, but pedals and gearbox are a delight to use and for a sports car it has fantastic vision all around and a fabulous driving position. I'm not sure a normal 997 with give you all its got on a test drive to be honest, you need a bit longer to get into it sometimes but it wins plaudits for some very good and obvious reasons, which is why it's usually those who've never driven one that are its biggest critics and why I like to discredit them sometimes.

Having said this it's not for everyone, if you are looking for bang in the back power deliver a C2/C4S won't give you that, relatively, though lets be clear it is one of the very quickest road cars out there and as I've said before Porsche horses are proper horses, they just seem to bang the numbers over and over again. Cayman S is fabulous too and you should drive one of those too but I think if you want a 911 you won't be happy with a Cayman S, if for no other reason than it isn't a 911.

 

[DM]

Subtle is the word, is a grown ups car.

You mentioned lifting off, im a proper rubbish driver and i was driving that last auto 997 in the bad weather, im still here, lifting off in a 911 aint like it was back in the 4 speed turbo days.

Its the ease of driving that sets them apart as well, you havent got to be Nigel Mansel to get the fun out of them and for the other 95% of the time its just a competent reliable nice place to be. Thats whats important to me now in cars, i dont want a car thats fantastic but you need to be going for it, because you aint going for it 95% of the time. Of course what i like dont matter a **** here really does it, dunno why i added that bit

 

[=VTA=MANFACE]

Go for it Gibbo, seems like you like it.


Don't look back.

 

[Besty]

Thought I might throw in my 50p about the Porsche's.

If speed is one of the main factors, the TT-RS is quite a bit quicker than a Gen2 Cayman S, which in itself is quicker than a 911 C2 and almost as fast (depending on spec) than a C2S which is, around £85k in a decent spec so you would expect it to be quicker than cars costing almost half as much.

The car to try (if you have the capital) is the 911 GT3 Gen2, the entry cost is much higher (around £105k with ceramics and a few bits) but, the depreciation and running costs will be much lower than a GTR and it will be much more satisfying to drive.

If driving pleasure is paramount and you want to keep the costs low then I would consider the Boxster or Cayman 2.9 manual on 18 inch wheels.

The 2.9 engine is very rev happy and sounds great at lower speeds, with the sports exhaust. The Boxster is probably the better buy out of the two.

The gear change and the steering on the mid-engined cars has got to be one of the sweetest in the world.

To the poster that suggested the C4S, I think this is the lame duck in the 911 range and should be avoided, it handles like a lump of lead compared to the mid-engined cars and costs a chunk more for little gain.

The 911 Gen2 Turbo is silly fast but, depreciates like a breeze block off a skyscraper, the sound is not very good and to get the best out of it you need to be doing over 100mph, not my cup of tea. Again, will be a great used buy but the Gen1 car's will be skinned by a GTR.

 

[DM]

I wouldnt call a C4S a lump of lead in the handling stakes.

 

[Gibbo]

I wouldnt call a C4S a lump of lead in the handling stakes.

Agreed, to say anything 911 handles like a lump a lead seems a bit far fetched.

I shall be driving C4S and C2S soon.

Shall probably also look at trying a top spec Cayman S too and a 996 Turbo/S.

 

[Fr0dders]

This looks lovely

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2337445.htm

 

[Housey]

Thought I might throw in my 50p about the Porsche's.

If speed is one of the main factors, the TT-RS is quite a bit quicker than a Gen2 Cayman S, which in itself is quicker than a 911 C2 and almost as fast (depending on spec) than a C2S which is, around £85k in a decent spec so you would expect it to be quicker than cars costing almost half as much.

The car to try (if you have the capital) is the 911 GT3 Gen2, the entry cost is much higher (around £105k with ceramics and a few bits) but, the depreciation and running costs will be much lower than a GTR and it will be much more satisfying to drive.

If driving pleasure is paramount and you want to keep the costs low then I would consider the Boxster or Cayman 2.9 manual on 18 inch wheels.

The 2.9 engine is very rev happy and sounds great at lower speeds, with the sports exhaust. The Boxster is probably the better buy out of the two.

The gear change and the steering on the mid-engined cars has got to be one of the sweetest in the world.

To the poster that suggested the C4S, I think this is the lame duck in the 911 range and should be avoided, it handles like a lump of lead compared to the mid-engined cars and costs a chunk more for little gain.

The 911 Gen2 Turbo is silly fast but, depreciates like a breeze block off a skyscraper, the sound is not very good and to get the best out of it you need to be doing over 100mph, not my cup of tea. Again, will be a great used buy but the Gen1 car's will be skinned by a GTR.

I prefer the C2 to the C4, but to call it a lump of lead is preposterous and Gibbo has 40K to spend so 997 GT3's and Gen 2's are well out of the picture as are 997 Turbos.

 

[Housey]

This looks lovely

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2337445.htm

Looks nice and a solid foundation from which to build something that does 210mph at VMax.

Just seen Ceramic brakes, you need to be very careful buying a car running these, not least when a 996 and the cost of replacement is around £6K I think and you would need to budget close to £2K for a steel swap out.

 

[Fr0dders]

the ceramics were standard on the Turbo S werent they ??

Something to watch out for !

 

[Gibbo]

the ceramics were standard on the Turbo S werent they ??

Something to watch out for !

Yeah its all a whole lot of annoying thats for sure.

997 better built, better handling and more kit.

996 Turbo S well within my budget but they all have ceramic brakes which as mentioned is a 5-6k replacement bill, why oh why did Porsche have to make them standard on the S. I find the S tempting because it has what Housey knows I like that huge push in the back and serious oomph, think just a single remap results in 530BHP, so I'd have Mustang power in a sure footed 4WD state of art handling car. But running cost on a S could be huge, especially when it comes to brakes. I guess best thing with an S is to try and find a used example thats had all the brakes changed recently.

Other option is generic 996 Turbo, but again this is even older, not as tunable due to turbo's and would be as mentioned older so could be a money pit.

Looks wise I like the looks of the 996 Turbo S, but a 997 S with aerokit and turbo wheels simply looks stunning.

Tuning front on an S is it cost a whole lot of cash, expect to pay 4k to take one from 355BHP towards 380-390BHP and thats your lot before your talking 10k plus.

I like everything about the 997 S cars, the only two downsides right now is engine in boot, will I like it and finally will one have enough oooomph.

In theory a 997 C2S is just as quick as the EVO in a straight line, 0-60mph in 4.2s region and 0-100mph in 10s region, but as Housey says they dont feel as quick as no kick in the back from turbo.

In a perfect world if I like the 997 S then it will be just a case of trying to find one with X51 powerkit, Sports Chrono Plus, Sports exhaust, SATNAV and upgraded sound plus aerokit. That would be perfect spec for me, will probably cost a pretty penny too but if I go Porsche I've found a few decent contacts thanks to people on this forum who can try to hunt down the right car for me.

 

[Fr0dders]

or just get a Z06

job done

 

[Gibbo]

or just get a Z06

job done

If I could afford two 40k cars I would as the Z06 beats all these cars in question at quite a few things such as all out performance, sound, looks and grin factor, though some will disagree on looks.

But Id have to change my route to work and avoid really narrow twisty lanes and visibility from the Vette is not great as its LHD but the killer is how low your sat down compared to the Mustang, making it harder to judge.

A Porsche are great on twisty little backroads in comparison.