So, this post office palaver then

Raymond Lin · 11 Jan 2024 at 10:11

JonRGV250 said:
27 cases apparently.
Hardly a tiny number, especially if you were on the receiving end.

27 relative to the number of cases overall in this fiasco and 27 cases in the CPS's backlog. The latter won't even make it a drop into the ocean.

If 27 cases are all they are doing...then it's a lot, not when you look at the bigger picture. The head of the CPS certainly isn't going to spend time in local magistrates/crown court doing local prosecutions in the far corners of Wales or Gateshead.

JonRGV250 · 11 Jan 2024 at 10:16

Yup, fair enough, but hardly a consolation to those who lost family members to suicide, lost their houses/livelihoods and those who were outcast by their local community.

Raymond Lin · 11 Jan 2024 at 10:19

JonRGV250 said:
Yup, fair enough, but hardly a consolation to those who lost family members to suicide, lost their houses/livelihoods and those who were outcast by their local community.

It's not a consolation, and that is a different topic there. It is massively on a different scale to the head of Royal Mail.

jeffk · 11 Jan 2024 at 10:19

n111ck said:
A leader should take accountability for failures during their tenure.. you can just hear those words being bleated out in Starmers nasally twang during PMQ's.. the hypocrisy..

The CPS can only go on the evidence it is presented with. There was an unprecedented cover-up at Fujitsu/the Post Office.

tom_e · 11 Jan 2024 at 10:27

JonRGV250 said:
27 cases apparently.
Hardly a tiny number, especially if you were on the receiving end.

Out of over 900 cases just related to this and out of however many total cases the CPS dealt with over that time. It is indeed a tiny number.
Obviously the impact it had on the people involved in those 27 is far from tiny but that's not what I was pointing out.

fez · 11 Jan 2024 at 10:27

So much crap is going to come out of the woodwork about this. The latest is the guys going after the sub postmasters getting bonuses based on convictions and amounts of money recovered.

n111ck · 11 Jan 2024 at 10:32

Raymond Lin said:
27 relative to the number of cases overall in this fiasco and 27 cases in the CPS's backlog. The latter won't even make it a drop into the ocean.

If 27 cases are all they are doing...then it's a lot, not when you look at the bigger picture. The head of the CPS certainly isn't going to spend time in local magistrates/crown court doing local prosecutions in the far corners of Wales or Gateshead.

Starmer was in charge and therefore ultimately accountable so should at least be apologising as it happened on his watch.

He likes to bleat on about his time at the CPS but the more we hear about his failures and defence of some absolute scum the more sickening it gets..

Raymond Lin · 11 Jan 2024 at 10:36

n111ck said:
Starmer was in charge and therefore ultimately accountable so should at least be apologising as it happened on his watch.

He likes to bleat on about his time at the CPS but the more we hear about his failures and defence of some absolute scum the more sickening it gets..

When Boris start apologising to those who died during covid, at minimum on the day that he had his office parties, when he ordered the rest of the country to stay apart on national television. May be Starmer can think about apologising for cases that is VERY unlikely that he knew about.

I think that's fair.

n111ck · 11 Jan 2024 at 10:38

Its quite telling that Starmer avoided the scandal on yesterday's PMQ's.. lol

sidimmu · 11 Jan 2024 at 10:39

n111ck said:
Starmer was in charge and therefore ultimately accountable so should at least be apologising as it happened on his watch.

He likes to bleat on about his time at the CPS but the more we hear about his failures and defence of some absolute scum the more sickening it gets..

Alright Mr Cameron, touched any pigs lately?

I love how you are so blinded and still so angry at Corbyn/labour that you cannot comprehend anything else and must maintain hatred for Labour and now Starmer forever.

n111ck · 11 Jan 2024 at 10:40

Raymond Lin said:
When Boris start apologising to those who died during covid, at minimum on the day that he had his office parties, when he ordered the rest of the country to stay apart on national television. May be Starmer can think about apologising for cases that is VERY unlikely that is happening.

I think that's fair.

So you hold Boris and Starmer to the same standard?

Raymond Lin · 11 Jan 2024 at 10:41

n111ck said:
So you hold Boris and Starmer to the same standard?

I hold them all to the same standard. You clearly do not.

n111ck · 11 Jan 2024 at 10:41

sidimmu said:
Alright Mr Cameron, touched any pigs lately?

I love how you are so blinded and still so angry at Corbyn/labour that you cannot comprehend anything else and must maintain hatred for Labour and now Starmer forever.

If you are suggesting that its wrong for Starmer to accept accountability for his former leadership position that doesn't say much about any future (god forbid) premiership..

n111ck · 11 Jan 2024 at 10:43

Raymond Lin said:
I hold them all to the same standard. You clearly do not.

So because Boris didn't apologise quick enough for you then Starmer can meet the same, according to you, low standards? Bizarre and hypocritical..

Raymond Lin · 11 Jan 2024 at 10:44

How about Truss going round the country apologising to everyone who has to pay more for their mortgage for her stupid mini budget?

Or give up her PM's pension from 44 days in office?

You can't say she doesn't know about the interest rates going up...you can't say what she did had no effect.

Same standard.

Raymond Lin · 11 Jan 2024 at 10:45

n111ck said:
So because Boris didn't apologise quick enough for you then Starmer can meet the same, according to you, low standards? Bizarre and hypocritical..

What do you mean quick enough, it's not even on the same ball park! ORDERING the country to isolate and then have an office party himself is DEFACTO hypocritical.

Not knowing local and regional cases around the country...and apologise for cases that he does not overseas.

It is not the same thing.

That is Bizarre to even considering they are even close. One he has full knowledge of, because he ordered it...the other, it's part of the cogs of the CPS.

Unless you can show me Starmer knew about each and every case and he knew the evidence...then he should apologise.

Boris KNEW the science, so much so he ordered the country to isolate....he then did not.

n111ck · 11 Jan 2024 at 10:47

Raymond Lin said:
How about Truss going round the country apologising to everyone who has to pay more for their mortgage for her stupid mini budget?

Or give up her PM's pension from 44 days in office?

You can't say she doesn't know about the interest rates going up...you can't say what she did had no effect.

Same standard.

But irrelevant to the Horizon scandal.

Raymond Lin · 11 Jan 2024 at 10:48

n111ck said:
But irrelevant to the Horizon scandal.

We are talking about holding them to the same standard.

You do not.

n111ck · 11 Jan 2024 at 10:49

Raymond Lin said:
What do you mean quick enough, it's not even on the same ball park! ORDERING the country to isolate and then have an office party himself is DEFACTO hypocritical.

Not knowing local and regional cases around the country...and apologise for cases that he does not overseas.

It is not the same thing.

That is Bizarre to even considering they are even close. One he has full knowledge of, because he ordered it...the other, it's part of the cogs of the CPS.

Again irrelevant to the Horizon scandal - it's just whataboutery - are you saying that Starmer was not ultimately accountable during his time at CPS and therefore should not have to apologise?

n111ck · 11 Jan 2024 at 10:49

Raymond Lin said:
We are talking about holding them to the same standard.

You do not.

So Starmer should apologise?