Soldato
Normally there is a 14 day cooling off period, so they wait that out then start the switch.
Maybe its been scrapped in the current climate
Solar panels and battery - any real world reccomendations?
- Thread starter GinG
- Start date
Normally there is a 14 day cooling off period, so they wait that out then start the switch.
Maybe its been scrapped in the current climate
Soldato
I've decided to go large, Multiplus II 48/10000, which is 8000w at 25c. Thinking is 8000w would cover high peak loads far better than a lower power one, I want to change the gas hob to induction, probably fit aircon as well (which can be used for heating), which will increase electric usage. I've also been told that the larger inverter will cope with the existing solar array.
I'd be interested in what suppliers are quoting you trade? Cheapest I've found for the Victron gear is actually a French firm on eBay, but I've not contacted any suppliers to see if a deal can be done.
There's a possibilty we'd be moving in about six years when I hopefully retire early, all depends on finances, how I feel about working etc. We already have one solar array installed in 2015, which has pretty much paid for itself. I'm looking at installing another array on the garage with inverter and batteries in the garage, the theory being I could take most of the garage install with me if we move.
There is still a 14 day cooling off period, this was stated, and if I changed my mind either cancel the move, or move to another provider, or back to my old one - I won't be changing my mind.
Soldato
6 Years is still plenty for good payback at the moment. It may not cover itself fully after 6 years but with a nice big system there is a very good chance it will with a bit of value add to the house.
I think moving within 5 years I'd question the worthwhile nature of it, but 6 years or more, and you're sort of good to go imo.
I think moving within 5 years I'd question the worthwhile nature of it, but 6 years or more, and you're sort of good to go imo.
Soldato
@HungryHippos That's my thinking, and if we did move, we could give the option to buy the garage system to prospective purchasers, or just take it with us.
Here's what I've drawn so far.
Each battery shelf would be 14kWh give or take 0.5kWh depending on whether I go for 280ah or 304ah cells. Will start off with one shelf.
Here's what I've drawn so far.
Each battery shelf would be 14kWh give or take 0.5kWh depending on whether I go for 280ah or 304ah cells. Will start off with one shelf.
Soldato
What is your estimated cost? Guess you're kind of just sorting yourself here with sparky to wire up for sign off?
Looks good though, and not being on the house you have better leeway with regards to things like scaffold not being required.
Do you need planning for the flat roof as the panels elevate above it? or is that what the angled brace covers where nothing is obviously going well above the flat plane?
Looks good though, and not being on the house you have better leeway with regards to things like scaffold not being required.
Do you need planning for the flat roof as the panels elevate above it? or is that what the angled brace covers where nothing is obviously going well above the flat plane?
Soldato
Costs, very roughly around the £10k mark, probably a bit more, but Victron is expensive, and I'll have 4860w of panels (in additoin to the existing 4kw array), and 14kWh battery, with 8000w inverter, which I can very easily add more batteries to.
Not really sure on the planning permission, I did email the council but they never came back to me, most companies that have quoted said I didn't need it, some weren't sure. Which is one reason I've kept the panels as low as possible by designing my own mounting system, panel angle is 10 degrees although I need to check the slope of the roof and allow for that.
No scaffold required, although I maintain trucks for two scaffold companies so I'm sure I could get a cheaper deal than normal, but I wouldn't need it anyway.
I've been waiting on a quote from a local company that did a site visit late June, I thought they had lost interest, but seems they just haven't done the quote yet. If the electricians that come tomorrow are OK I'll just DIY it with them doing the electrical work, and Part P sign off. I haven't wanted to order anything until I get an electrician sorted just in case.
Not really sure on the planning permission, I did email the council but they never came back to me, most companies that have quoted said I didn't need it, some weren't sure. Which is one reason I've kept the panels as low as possible by designing my own mounting system, panel angle is 10 degrees although I need to check the slope of the roof and allow for that.
No scaffold required, although I maintain trucks for two scaffold companies so I'm sure I could get a cheaper deal than normal, but I wouldn't need it anyway.
I've been waiting on a quote from a local company that did a site visit late June, I thought they had lost interest, but seems they just haven't done the quote yet. If the electricians that come tomorrow are OK I'll just DIY it with them doing the electrical work, and Part P sign off. I haven't wanted to order anything until I get an electrician sorted just in case.
Soldato
Quick scan of this suggests if the height isn't more than 0.2M above the highest point, you may be OK?
At that pitch it must be borderline that much?
From: https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/solar-energy/solar-panels/flat-roof-solar-panels
Beyond that, I guess the other thing will be who cares enough to complain really? Your install looks fairly covert, it shouldn't constitute an eyesore or block visibility or anything.
When Is Planning Permission Needed?
There are some situations in which you need planning permission.Flat Roofs
You'll need planning permission if you want to put solar panels on a flat roof. As you know, solar panels on a flat roof are put in frames to provide an angle towards the sun. This usually necessitates a protrusion of more than 0.2 meters above the roof slope, which is against the "permitted development" rules.At that pitch it must be borderline that much?
From: https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/solar-energy/solar-panels/flat-roof-solar-panels
Beyond that, I guess the other thing will be who cares enough to complain really? Your install looks fairly covert, it shouldn't constitute an eyesore or block visibility or anything.
Soldato
Yes its borderline.......taking the small upstand as the highest point.
Soldato
In theory I need planning permission for my outdoor AC unit, as it's within 1M of my boundary.
But on the other side of that boundry is nothing, so I took the chance no one is going to really care that much!
After a certain timeframe I think it becomes almost ignored, or harder to flag for anyone who does care enough to bother.
Worst case on your one they may ask you to submit for planning after the fact, and a small chance that some people may kick up a fuss, but your install wouldn't bother me if I was next door to you based on what you've shown.
But on the other side of that boundry is nothing, so I took the chance no one is going to really care that much!
After a certain timeframe I think it becomes almost ignored, or harder to flag for anyone who does care enough to bother.
Worst case on your one they may ask you to submit for planning after the fact, and a small chance that some people may kick up a fuss, but your install wouldn't bother me if I was next door to you based on what you've shown.
Soldato
Once its been there for four years you can apply for a certificate of lawfulness.
In my case if its just over I can just make the roof higher at a given point, say raise the top edge by fitting a batten and felting over it, which wouldn't require permission as its less than 150mm, but would raise the highest point of the roof.
In my case if its just over I can just make the roof higher at a given point, say raise the top edge by fitting a batten and felting over it, which wouldn't require permission as its less than 150mm, but would raise the highest point of the roof.
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Soldato
Ah only been like 2 years so far. Worst case I would just move the outdoor unit if needed, it's not a huge deal really, doubt anyone will care as I've put it out of the way.
Soldato
Its extremely unlikely anyone will notice your AC unit 
A lot of TV aerails technically require planning as they exceed the maximum height, I think 600mm above the roof.
A lot of TV aerails technically require planning as they exceed the maximum height, I think 600mm above the roof.
Soldato
That is big, 8000w should certainly suffice for peak loads. What I would say is that as far as I can tell it isn't ENA approved for G98/G99/G100, only the 48 3000/5000 are. I am having the same issue with the Quattro 48/5000, so may have to go with the 8000 which is fully approved. The DNO have insisted that even if no export is required, they have to meet type test approval for safety if the grid is being connected to the AC-in on the inverter at all. But perhaps you are not intending to connect it to the grid.
How many MPPT controllers are you getting for the setup, and which ones? I've opted to go with the SS 250/60 or 250/70's, in order to have some scope for having larger panels added in future, although given how modular Victron gear is it might be somewhat overkill, but it isn't set in stone yet.
I'll certainly feedback more data on the pricing, once I have it all in hand.
Soldato
Thanks very useful information, I wasn't aware that the 48/10000 wasn't fully approved, it needs to be G99. Why are you using the Quattro instead of a Multiplus II? Edit I guess because the Multiplus II 8000 isn't approved. I've never been too sure what the difference is between Quattro and Multiplus?
Was going with two MPPT controllers, one for east panels, one for west. MPPT 150/45TR
Was going with two MPPT controllers, one for east panels, one for west. MPPT 150/45TR
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I should have looked back through my posts in this thread. £16k stuck in my head somehow but the actual cost would be less.
Based on peak 320kWh usage, what would be a good configuration from my quote? Option 1 or 2? How many batteries? Trying to balance cost with reliability and quality.
Soldato
@Journey I'll may be switching to the Quattro 48/10000 which is G99 approved, I hadn't realised the Multiplus II 48/10000 wasn't. I think the Multiplus II 3000 & 5000 came out long before the 8000 & 10000, which is why the former is approved and the later isn't.
It appears the only major difference between the Quattro and Multiplus is that the Quattro can be connected to two external power inputs at the same time e.g grid and generator.
The other option would be to use two Multiplus II 48/5000 inverters in parallel, this would be marginally cheaper than a single Quattro 48/10000 but I'm constrained on space.
It appears the only major difference between the Quattro and Multiplus is that the Quattro can be connected to two external power inputs at the same time e.g grid and generator.
The other option would be to use two Multiplus II 48/5000 inverters in parallel, this would be marginally cheaper than a single Quattro 48/10000 but I'm constrained on space.
Soldato
Yeah I am going with the Quattro for that very reason, the second AC-in, as I'll be running V2L from the car in to it instead of needing bigger batteries for the house, might as well use the ones sat on the driveway.
I've actually got an outstanding query with Victron about the certifications on the newer Multiplus/Quatrro II's and such, so I'll let you know what I hear if anything at all.
Going to be doing some Victron courses as well, so I can become more familiar with the programming etc. as want to be able to make most use of the system. Looking forward to being in control of it rather than the manufacturer, and the Cerbo GX looks amazing for data capture and control.
Soldato
320 kwh per month? about 10 per day if so, I'd budget around that level. Bigger system can be good but you want to pace it somewhere around what you may expect to use reasonably. Solar is more efficient when you use as much of the generation as you can.
Option 1 with a reasonable battery might be fair, but there is no scaffold cost there, not sure how much that adds. Givenergy do a 9.5kwh battery which may not cost tons more, worth finding out the difference maybe. Larger battery gives you more flexibility on usage times.
If the system isn't much above 3.6kw you can get away with a 3.6kw inverter and no need for a longer DNO application, can do the pre-approved one so potentially spun up quicker.
Try and make sure you get a hybrid inverter in case you want to add an EV later, I think hybrid makes it easier to add.
Associate
@Ron-ski when you purchase the Lifepo4 cells, make sure they have "Brand new" stated in the listing, you have way more comeback if they have them listed as brand new, and you find that they are not, If you are dealing with a source in China.(it seems new in China can mean repackaged used cells)
KJ BMS is a good choice for the cells, mine has been running for 90days without having to touch it, always keeps the cells very well balanced, like to 0.005v.
Only out of that range at the very top of the charge range, I only charge mine to 3.5v per cell.
If you have no heating in the Garage, safe bet is to set the BMS to stop charging @2c as the sensor reading is only from the cell the sensor is touching, other cells might be a bit higher or lower.
Just what has worked well for me.
KJ BMS is a good choice for the cells, mine has been running for 90days without having to touch it, always keeps the cells very well balanced, like to 0.005v.
Only out of that range at the very top of the charge range, I only charge mine to 3.5v per cell.
If you have no heating in the Garage, safe bet is to set the BMS to stop charging @2c as the sensor reading is only from the cell the sensor is touching, other cells might be a bit higher or lower.
Just what has worked well for me.
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Soldato
Does anyone run just a battery setup and pull down enough energy overnight when it's cheaper to use throughout the day?
We use around 9000kWh a year but the south facing part of our roof isn't big enough to get anywhere near the number of panels needed. I think we could fit 5-6 panels on the main roof and then 2-3 on the garage roof. The north facing part of the rooves could probably fit 15+ annoyingly!
We use around 9000kWh a year but the south facing part of our roof isn't big enough to get anywhere near the number of panels needed. I think we could fit 5-6 panels on the main roof and then 2-3 on the garage roof. The north facing part of the rooves could probably fit 15+ annoyingly!