Solskjær... on borrowed time + board/ownership issues

adam cool dude said:
He does looks a gangly but that's just because his legs are like tentacles. He was making some good touches last night. He just gets a little bit lost in the final third sometimes as he is not used to it :p.

I am sure watching TAA week in and week out makes the whole league of right backs look average.
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Trent obviously exaggerates the point but I think back 3 years and if you'd asked me then which position didn't need improving then I'm saying RB. Clyne had been arguably our most consistent player for 2 seasons, very good defensively and used to get up and down the pitch well but now I can't imagine him or anybody like him playing for us again. VVD and Alisson get most of the credit for transforming us from a very good team to a great team but our fullbacks are equally as important. Teams used to be able to defend deep and narrow to stifle our front 3 but having two fullbacks so good on the ball and capable of creating chances makes defending that way almost as suicidal as playing open expansive football. They're absolutely pivotal to the success of this team.

It's not just this Liverpool side too. City at their peak, the best Barca, Real or Bayern teams have all had fullbacks that are very comfortable on the ball and are able to influence the game from an attacking sense too.
 
Why was Ole blaming fitness levels for a lack of energy and goals after the game? It's not like we've looked good all season aside from Rashford carrying us at times.

Wolves have had a more difficult schedule too, Nuno wasn't making excuses.

I think perspective is being lost due to the other failings within the club at board level, but Ole just isn't doing anything to move us forward. I don't know how people can't see that.
 
Not defending him but Wolves had 10 days off to prepare for the game, we played twice in that time. I agree though that it's a poor excuse when you take into account that it's not a sudden drop in performance, it's been consistent over the season.
 
Shamikebab said:
Not defending him but Wolves had 10 days off to prepare for the game, we played twice in that time. I agree though that it's a poor excuse when you take into account that it's not a sudden drop in performance, it's been consistent over the season.
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It has also been consistent with injuries as well. It comes of no surprise that our best spells have all been with our first team fit.
 
You aren’t always going to have your first choice XI. Let’s be honest, we are currently dire and not looking any better week to week. Our manager is doing the square route of **** all to improve us and it shows.

Dont look at our league position, look at our points. We would be mid table at best most seasons with 35 points. The only reason we are better with Rashford et al is because they are capable of producing individual moments that elevate our mediocrity.

They aren’t integral to how we play because even with a fully fit XI we don’t have a clue under Ole. Genuinely boggles my mind how anyone thinks he is up to the task.
 
If we discount Rashford for a moment, as he's only been out for a couple of weeks, one of numerous issues Utd have is that their integral players amount to Pogba and Mctominay. A player that doesn't want to be at the club and is doing all he can to force his way out and another player that shouldn't be more than a 4th or 5th choice option. Surely it's alarming that these players are considered integral?
 
Shamikebab said:
Why on earth would he be 4th/5th choice? You do talk some nonsense Baz.
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Because he's barely better than average and Utd want to be challenging at the top of the table. Or are you happy battling it out for 6th place because you're surely not going to suggest he's of the quality to play in a top side regularly.
 
Shamikebab said:
Yes he could definitely play in a top side, he's one of the most improved players this season and has been in our top 3 performers easily.
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You're currently sitting in 7th place, behind Sheffield Utd and only GD keeping you above Wolves, and it's not as if you were massively better off before he got injured either. Being improved and one of Utd's better players doesn't mean that he could play in a top side, just like being taller than a dwarf doesn't make you 6ft.

Could you honestly say he is or will ever reach the level or close to the level of a Keane, Scholes or even Carrick? I'm sorry but I don't see it. He's a solid squad player, somebody that can do a job for you when needed but he's not starting regularly at any side competing for major titles and certainly shouldn't be integral to that side.
 
Could you honestly say Henderson will ever reach the level of a Keane, Scholes or Carrick? You don't need 11 world class players to have a good team and McTominay has shown his quality against top class opposition multiple times this season and even towards the end of last year. It's stupid to say he's not good enough because of our league position. By that judgement Robinson must be terrible! or Maguire, or Ruben Neves, need I go on?
 
Keane or Scholes? No but Carrick, albeit a different style of player. And I didn't say he wasn't good enough because of your League position, I was pointing out that just being one of Utd's better players doesn't therefore make you good enough for a top side expecting to challenge because that, and being improved, was your justification for him being good enough.

The point you make about McTominay showing his quality against top class opposition is an interesting one. Utd as a side have generally performed better against better sides than they have against inferior sides, why is that? Because Utd are set up to spoil the game and play on the break. Their midfield hasn't been good enough when they've been expected to dominate games and to take the game to the opposition.
 
That is a tactical problem and has been the case regardless of the opposition or who has been playing. Under a better manager we'd be nowhere near so one dimensional. It's incorrect to blame it on the midfield. it's a problem from back to front.
 
I'm not going to defend Ole's tactics but it's more than just that. Utd have far too many players in their side that from a basic technical point of view, just aren't good enough footballers. Utd don't have enough players that are comfortable playing one and two touch football and or can pass the ball forwards and that's most glaringly obvious in midfield.

edit: Anyway, I really didn't want to get into a debate about McTominay. I was making a wider point about the state of your squad where, imo, you shouldn't be in a situation where players that don't want to be at the club and ones not of the highest quality are considered integral and their injuries a valid excuse for poor performances.
 
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BaZ87 said:
I'm not going to defend Ole's tactics but it's more than just that. Utd have far too many players in their side that from a basic technical point of view, just aren't good enough footballers. Utd don't have enough players that are comfortable playing one and two touch football and or can pass the ball forwards and that's most glaringly obvious in midfield.

edit: Anyway, I really didn't want to get into a debate about McTominay. I was making a wider point about the state of your squad where, imo, you shouldn't be in a situation where players that don't want to be at the club and ones not of the highest quality are considered integral and their injuries a valid excuse for poor performances.
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I don't agree with that at all. McTominay was playing really well by anyones standards. Passing well, breaking up play a lot and breaking through opposition lines to start counter attacks or simply to open up some space in midfield.

We also do have the players to play one touch football but do you know what you need to be able to do that? Tactics, training and a team full of players that aren't having to make a decision on where to pass the ball after they receive it. You could put the 10 best technical players on the planet in a team and they wouldn't magically be knocking it around the other team for fun. There has to be a plan, you have to know where the next pass is going to go and who is making a run where.

It all comes down to coaching and confidence. I don't believe Ole has the ability to coach a team and the easiest way to play when you can't coach a team properly is with pace on the counter attack or to just hope one of your star players will pull something out of the bag. Thats one of the differences between the top teams and mid-table ones. Top teams have the guys that win you games single-handedly and will finish your nice build up play. We are currently a team with a bunch of good players who are poorly coached. If our star players turn up and turn it on we will do well, if they don't we won't. Thats on the manager.
 
I really don't want to go round in cricles about McTominay and I don't want to sound like I'm taking the **** now but over the last 12 months or so I've been told by Utd fans that De Gea's still the best in the world, Dalot looks excellent, AWB is a beast, Lindelof is great, Maguire was a great signing, if Shaw can stay fit that's our LB sorted, Williams look like being a great player, Fred and McTominay have been excellent, Pogba's world class, James looks like being an excellent signing, Greenwood's the second coming and Martial and Rashford are as good as anything around*. By that token, if you put Poch in charge this Utd squad is going to be challenging for the League? We both know that's not nearly true.

Yes, with a better manager in charge this squad would be doing better than they are but equally this is still the worst Utd squad in my living memory. Williams and Greenwood look promising but who knows how they'll develop - as supporters we all too often think that a youngster that emerges is going to be a star but very rarely does that happen. Pogba's an incredibly talented player but with an awful attitude and Martial's the same albeit to a lesser extent on both counts. Who is left, that could make a genuine case for playing in a top side? Rashford is the only player you could say with any confidence and he'd still only be an option at most top sides given the quality in attack they have already.

Shami made the point last night that you don't need to have 11 world class players in a top side and that's fair enough but you need at least 3 or 4 and they need to be supplemented with another 5 or 6 very good players (Carrick level players for example) and then maybe you can get away with 1 or 2 of these squad players who rotate in and out of the side. Too many of this Utd squad fall into the squad player category and that, imo, includes McTominay and why it's telling of the state that Utd are in when he's classed as being integral to the side. VVD is integral to Liverpool, KdB to Man City and the likes of Keane and Vieira to great Utd and Arsenal sides. If McTominay is integral to this Utd side then you're ****ed and that was point I was initially making.

*I'm paraphrasing before you ask me to quote somebody calling Greenwood the second coming.
 
"utd fans"

You realise that it's not one entity right? You're taking comments from different people and collating them into assuming we think everyone in our squad is incredible. That is pretty silly.
 
Shamikebab said:
"utd fans"

You realise that it's not one entity right? You're taking comments from different people and collating them into assuming we think everyone in our squad is incredible. That is pretty silly.
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Yes, I know full well that these views have come from various people, not one. Although I'm pretty sure you've talked up most, if not each and every one of the players I've listed. I was making point though, the state of this Utd squad and individual players are not nearly as good as some Utd fans think.
 
I can't be bothered to search but if you try and find where we have had our entire first lineup fit I bet it would be less than 5 games. Not including Bruno who is new I would say. Pogba, Fred and McTominay in the middle. Martial, Rashford, James/Mason. How many times have all of those played together this season?

We had a very decent spell in December because we had our majority of players fit bar Pogba and the results showed. Now again we are totally buggered. I just hope we start getting players back after the winter break.

The main problem we have is we didn't replace who we got rid of in the summer leaving us with a thread bare squad. Who's fault that lies with is up to debate.

The good under Ole has been so much better to watch than before. People forget our FA cup win was horribly poor and we were very lucky to beat Southampton for the league cup.
 
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