Sony XF90

[jaket]

I've just taken the jump from our 2008 Sony 40" to a new 2018 KD49-XF9005 with HT-XF9000... It should be delivered this week! I'm excited for a new tele and have some content ready to go on my Plex.

Anyone else purchased this tele or going to? Any calibration changes?

HDTV Review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLDxEE9Wwng
HDTV XF90 vs XE90 VS XE93: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0GzpKxakZM
Rtings Review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJwub9mnhuw&t=129s

 

[stoofa]

I was waiting to see what the XF90 would bring to the table (as I was looking for a 55" TV). As soon as the first couple of previews dropped I went and purchased the XE93.
It should look fantastic. The XE90 was a great TV, so the added processing power from the XF90 should just turn a great TV into an even better one.
Rtings have almost certainly got some recommended settings which should provide a good starting point.

 

[MoRT489]

I will be buying the 65” model. I saw it in store this week and it looks fantastic. The Android TV menu was a bit slow but I think that’s always been a criticism of Sony TVs.

Can these TVs display Amazon 4K through the app or do you need to buy the Amazon Fire TV box?

I’ve got a Fire TV Stick and Chromecast but I assume they will become obsolete with this TV.

 

[jaket]

Not sure about Amazon 4K through there app... Will let you know in a couple of days.

 

[jaket]

I was waiting to see what the XF90 would bring to the table (as I was looking for a 55" TV). As soon as the first couple of previews dropped I went and purchased the XE93.
It should look fantastic. The XE90 was a great TV, so the added processing power from the XF90 should just turn a great TV into an even better one.
Rtings have almost certainly got some recommended settings which should provide a good starting point.

Thanks. Didn't see the Settings on Rtings... New to having a nice tv or looking at review sites! Ha.

 

[stoofa]

I will be buying the 65” model. I saw it in store this week and it looks fantastic. The Android TV menu was a bit slow but I think that’s always been a criticism of Sony TVs.

Can these TVs display Amazon 4K through the app or do you need to buy the Amazon Fire TV box?

I’ve got a Fire TV Stick and Chromecast but I assume they will become obsolete with this TV.

They can display through the App - although I had a lot of hassle getting it to do so. However I eventually upgrade to the latest firmware, which also gave me Dolby Vision and then I could get the app to display UHD content - what little there is of it.

 

[jaket]

They can display through the App - although I had a lot of hassle getting it to do so. However I eventually upgrade to the latest firmware, which also gave me Dolby Vision and then I could get the app to display UHD content - what little there is of it.

Ooo, I saw the firmware update online however it didn't mention the XF90 range so glad Dolby Vision is there... Got a screengrab of the version?

 

[MoRT489]

Stoofa has the XE93, the Dolby vision upgrade hasn’t come to the XF yet.

 

[feck199]

I was ready to buy XF90, talked myself into it. Then saw a good deal on a XE90 and thought saving some money now would mean I can replace my old 42inch that actually gets more use than the main TV next year.

XE90 turned out to be not new and had some damage to the panel.

Walked away with an XE83 (Basically an XE80) But ended up spending only a part of the budget! Considering this TV is mainly used for Daytime tv..

One thing that has shocked me, is the onboard android isn't actually fast enough to play a 4k 10bit film directly. If you use Amazon or Netflix then it'll work as they are giving you 4k stream quality and trying to make sure it works well.

Take a 60-80Gb 4k MKV, the tv struggles to play without buffering (It has a cabled 1Gb connection). That's within Plex for Kodi.
Use Plex for Android and it fails to play it in native format and forces my server to transcode.

Then I went and tested the same movie on a Nivida Shield that is currently using Wifi... it played the file smoothly only buffering after about 10mins. So not perfect but quite good for wifi requiring 100Mbps constantly to direct play.

I can't find anything to say that an XF has a better SOC android than the XE.

EDIT - Also I can't find anything to convince me that the 'image processing' provided by the higher models applies to apps and are not limited to inputs over HDMI only.

 

[jaket]

I was ready to buy XF90, talked myself into it. Then saw a good deal on a XE90 and thought saving some money now would mean I can replace my old 42inch that actually gets more use than the main TV next year.

XE90 turned out to be not new and had some damage to the panel.

Walked away with an XE83 (Basically an XE80) But ended up spending only a part of the budget! Considering this TV is mainly used for Daytime tv..

One thing that has shocked me, is the onboard android isn't actually fast enough to play a 4k 10bit film directly. If you use Amazon or Netflix then it'll work as they are giving you 4k stream quality and trying to make sure it works well.

Take a 60-80Gb 4k MKV, the tv struggles to play without buffering (It has a cabled 1Gb connection). That's within Plex for Kodi.
Use Plex for Android and it fails to play it in native format and forces my server to transcode.

Then I went and tested the same movie on a Nivida Shield that is currently using Wifi... it played the file smoothly only buffering after about 10mins. So not perfect but quite good for wifi requiring 100Mbps constantly to direct play.

I can't find anything to say that an XF has a better SOC android than the XE.

EDIT - Also I can't find anything to convince me that the 'image processing' provided by the higher models applies to apps and are not limited to inputs over HDMI only.

Some good feedback. I will test out Plex with my 4K files and see how it behaves, I've got a mixture of lower bitrate 8-16Mbps 4K files and higher ones from 40-60Mbps so will be interesting to compare results to the XF90 to XE83.

 

[jpaul]

Take a 60-80Gb 4k MKV, the tv struggles to play without buffering (It has a cabled 1Gb connection). That's within Plex for Kodi.
Use Plex for Android and it fails to play it in native format and forces my server to transcode.

is that higher bitrate h265 though, not lower bitrate (=> smaller buffer) and more efficient hevc ? ... what is the published codec/bitrate support.
Local media or network share should show best case capability

- you have probably seen vincents speed-up comments https://youtu.be/w3ZnPq06jjA

 

[jaket]

is that higher bitrate h265 though, not lower bitrate (=> smaller buffer) and more efficient hevc ? ... what is the published codec/bitrate support.
Local media or network share should show best case capability

- you have probably seen vincents speed-up comments https://youtu.be/w3ZnPq06jjA

All my 4K are H265, Low Bitrate;
Video
ID : 1
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile : Main 10@L5@Main
Codec ID : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC
Duration : 2 h 12 min
Bit rate : 5 440 kb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.027
Stream size : 5.05 GiB (93%)
Default : Yes
Forced : No

High BitRate;
Video
ID : 1
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile : Main [email protected]@High
Codec ID : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC
Duration : 1 h 31 min
Bit rate : 35.0 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 (Type 2)
Bit depth : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.176
Stream size : 22.4 GiB (86%)
Title : MPEG-H HEVC Video / 34966 kbps / 2160p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 Profile 5.1 High / 4:2:0 / 10 bits / HDR / BT.2020
Writing library : ATEME Titan File 3.7.6 (4.7.6.101)
Language : English
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics : SMPTE ST 2084
Matrix coefficients : BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries : R: x=0.680000 y=0.320000, G: x=0.265000 y=0.690000, B: x=0.150000 y=0.060000, White point: x=0.312700 y=0.329000
Mastering display luminance : min: 0.0000 cd/m2, max: 1000.0000 cd/m2

 

[feck199]

It's HEVC and Kodi/Plex did do Direct Play. I've not tried Direct within Kodi yet but I will.


Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 4 / Version 2
File size : 52.9 GiB
Duration : 2 h 6 min
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 59.7 Mb/s
Encoded date : UTC 2017-12-13 21:30:48
Writing application : mkvmerge v18.0.0 ('Apricity') 64-bit
Writing library : libebml v1.3.5 + libmatroska v1.4.8

Video
ID : 1
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile : Main [email protected]@High
Codec ID : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC
Duration : 2 h 6 min
Bit rate : 53.0 Mb/s
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 (Type 2)
Bit depth : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.267
Stream size : 47.0 GiB (89%)
Writing library : ATEME Titan KFE 3.7.3 (4.7.3.1003)
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics : SMPTE ST 2084
Matrix coefficients : BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries : R: x=0.680000 y=0.320000, G: x=0.265000 y=0.690000, B: x=0.150000 y=0.060000, White point: x=0.312700 y=0.329000
Mastering display luminance : min: 0.0050 cd/m2, max: 1000.0000 cd/m2

 

[feck199]

is that higher bitrate h265 though, not lower bitrate (=> smaller buffer) and more efficient hevc ? ... what is the published codec/bitrate support.
Local media or network share should show best case capability

- you have probably seen vincents speed-up comments https://youtu.be/w3ZnPq06jjA

I hadn't seen that video, samba is disabled but the background processes may well need limiting.

 

[pepp77]

On the XE's the ethernet port shares a bus with the USB and struggles to get decent speeds. As a result I switched over to connecting via AC wifi to my router and get better throughput. also it is best to use the built in Video app for 4K playback on these TVs as the TV handles it better.

 

[jpaul]

[

is that higher bitrate h265h264 though, not lower bitrate (=> smaller buffer) and more efficient hevc ?

meants to say was it h264 not h265
]

those average hevc bit rates of 35/53 Mb/s (ripped/re-encoded uhd discs!) are above/close to minimum's Main [email protected]@High tv should support of only 40Mb/s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Video_Coding_tiers_and_levels#endnote_MinCRD
individual vendor hardware impose their own max, the 160Mb/s in table is just the worst a legitimater stream could be.

sony don't seem to document maximums unlike LG say,
it was in an earlier post but am remembering 40-60Mbs, but in general tv's could not directly decode a uhd disc stream (how much ram is in a ub900 ?)
not sure what tools exist to scan the media and tell you what the peak bitrates are (blue-ray beaver site gives charts)


-----------

Does the xe9 do utube hdr, there seems some ambiguity on vp9.2 support ?


EDIT : holy moly could not see uhd disc players ram but
The Xbox One X is a beast of a gaming console. It offers 6 teraflops of performance, 12GB of GDDR5 RAM and an eight-core CPU clocked at 2.3GHz

 

[feck199]

On the XE's the ethernet port shares a bus with the USB and struggles to get decent speeds. As a result I switched over to connecting via AC wifi to my router and get better throughput. also it is best to use the built in Video app for 4K playback on these TVs as the TV handles it better.

Thanks for that, will see what else I can find out about it. Normally using a Pi with USB/Gbit ethernet I get around 400Mbps, but I can try doing some file transfers over ethernet to a usb disk and see what speed it can transfer. I can also try playing the file from a HDD. *EDIT - Only after posting did I think about the fact the USB disk will also be on the same bus. Still i want to know!

Really don't want to switch to Wifi if I can avoid it, currently dedicated AC to a steam link and it really improved things kicking everyone else off AC on the AP downstairs.

Just seen videos on the Sony Pro Settings menu, looks like I will be able to change the home screen afterall!

 

[jpaul]

On the XE's the ethernet port shares a bus with the USB and struggles to get decent speeds. As a result I switched over to connecting via AC wifi to my router and get better throughput. also it is best to use the built in Video app for 4K playback on these TVs as the TV handles it better.

just saw your comment - had noted this earlier - wifi's on usb too.

Why would you put 802.11ac 2x2 MIMO on the USB2.0 bus in the first place? It could make sense if you used the second antenna entirely for diversity in order to improve range. You could still get up to ~230mbps out of that which you would also expect to get through USB2.0

 

[feck199]

Only a limited test but the ethernet connection was only giving me 70Mbps using an internet speed test app, other things even on wifi are getting around 300Mbps. The file I was playing required 100Mbps, once you include all the audio tracks it has to pull down as well.
I'll have to retest this as it wasn't the best of tests, but didn't look like a good start for quick test.

Wifi gave me different results, 20, 40, 60. Each time increasing but capping out around 62.

Other devices getting 2x or 4x + this speed on wifi.

 

[jpaul]

subsequently read this extensive sony android tv review ... so locally you can get high rate/120Mbs jellyfish - i stand corrected

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EPzlq_ipIPMCDoMqMgDl0IuKmTsMoZHeKKwE_zxbFUk/pub#h.iglowpthgo0t

...In order to test network playback performance, I used the jellyfish bitrate files. For Ultra HD Blu-ray compliancy, I even went up to the 120mbps (17.5MB/s) sample. Even though that sounds like overkill, 4K@60fps means quite some data, even for HEVC/VP9 with 4:2:0 chroma subsampling.
The samples were streamed off of Windows and Linux based servers with various protocols such as DLNA, SMB and NFS. Kodi has been used as the primary player on the Sony TV
I first tried to play the sample off of a fast USB 3.0 HDD in order to verify that the MT5890 is capable of decoding HEVC Main 10 High@Level 5.1 at such a high bitrate.