sound card vs motherboard audio

[EsaT]

...to a pair of DT 770 Pro closed-back (250 ohms). the SMSL DAC powers these well with the volume level turned up to 1pm which gives great sound and volume levels, the 4 on-board amplifier was too quiet to power these headphones. You would be able to power 80 ohm headphones with the on-board audio amplifier easily enough, the MSI B350 with ALC 1220 is NOT capable of powering high ohm headphones from my experience, yes they will work but the volume is not high enough to get what you need from a decent set of quality high ohm headphones.

Which is totally unimpressive.
DT770 should have pretty equal power need per dB as DT990 (same driver in both) and standard Realtek drives them easily past hearing safe volume.
I've tried with Sandy Bridge era basic motherboard using low end ALC892 chip.
About 35% volume setting started going past comfortable.

Which isn't really wonder, considering 250 ohm Beyers should have ~0,3Vrms signal need for 90dB and Realtek chips are specified for 1-1,1 Vrms output into current hogging 32 ohms and likely rising to 1,5+ V with low current loads.
While there's no available datasheet for ALC1220, it just wouldn't make any sense for Realtek to make it worser than lower end chips.
Motherboard makers are just more interested in maximizing amount of marketing hype, so actual implementations are likely half the time total screw ups.

And with real headphone amplifier volume knob is still well below 12 and also Windows volume setting (not amplification, but decrease of signal from full scale) below 30%.
With Windows (and other software) volume at 100% and full output scale in use, I would likely have to keep volume at 8-9.
When using low gain!
At high gain there likely wouldn't be any usable volume adjustment range without dropping volume from Windows to below 10%.

For another perspective Sound BlasterX AE-5 can push out more power than that 200mW K700-serie AKGs are specified to tolerate. (meaning possible damage to headphones)
250 ohm Beyers resist current enough that AE-5 runs out of output voltage before their specified max power is met.
Again it could push over twice the Beyer's rated max power into 80 ohm DT770.

 

[Marsman]

Which is totally unimpressive.
DT770 should have pretty equal power need per dB as DT990 (same driver in both) and standard Realtek drives them easily past hearing safe volume.
I've tried with Sandy Bridge era basic motherboard using low end ALC892 chip.
About 35% volume setting started going past comfortable.

You're forgetting one thing; not everyone wants what many would call safe levels of volume...

What about the chap with a Schiit Modi and Mangi, found it didn't drive his AKG Kxx's to what he would describe as a completely satisfying level of volume.

The assumption was that he didn't have full volume in Windows, or the gain set to high, or there must be a problem; but was there an issue? Many of us just assume that because we can't understand how someone would want volume that loud.

I know a friend of mine who listens to volume levels far greater than anything I can stand.

 

[DRITZZ]

Thanks for the detailed replies, and yes people do have different level's of volume tolerance. What i will say is the DAC adds a hell of a lot to my Z623 Logitech speakers, the volume knob is only going up to around 8-9 o clock and it's loud, and still has plenty more room to crank it up if required. I've seen lots of articles on whether you need a separate dedicated sound card (this is the way i use to go, last one i bought was a creative x-fi, a while ago), recently I've been happy to just use my on-board sound. The reality is on-board sound has got a lot better over the last 5 years but it still falls short of a dedicated sound card with built in amp, or a separate DAC.

 

[V F]

You're forgetting one thing; not everyone wants what many would call safe levels of volume...

What about the chap with a Schiit Modi and Mangi, found it didn't drive his AKG Kxx's to what he would describe as a completely satisfying level of volume.

The assumption was that he didn't have full volume in Windows, or the gain set to high, or there must be a problem; but was there an issue? Many of us just assume that because we can't understand how someone would want volume that loud.

I know a friend of mine who listens to volume levels far greater than anything I can stand.

Ouch!

 

[nicknack35]

I have the MK1 MK2's and it does not have a internal DAC. I use external DAC for 2 reasons it looks better plus i can use an Headphone Amp for my LCD2-C's

 

[EsaT]

The reality is on-board sound has got a lot better over the last 5 years but it still falls short of a dedicated sound card with built in amp, or a separate DAC.

Well, this test is soon five years old:
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733-19.html

 

[Shaddow1086]

I'm still stuck in deciding if I should invest in dedicated sound or continue with on-board sound.
Using logitech 5.1 surround system.

As mentioned, guess a lot of the sound quality comes down to the individual preseption of the sounds.

 

[Marsman]

Onboard is good enough for PC 5.1 speakers. For just 5.1 speaker use, a sound card won't add anything extra. Headphone use is where having a sound card has extra benefits.

 

[JasonM]

I have a Gigabyte Z370 HD3P and on the on-board sound is poor. It washes out the sound, and worse it has terrible background interference. Never intended to use the on-board as I have an Asus Essence but tried it out of curiosity. Also have 90's Technics and Pioneer CD players and there superior in every way to the Gigabyte on-board.

 

[idi banashapan]

The thing that gets me is pretty much everyone who goes with the on-board says 'it's good enough' or 'it's ok'. Sure, I get that audio is not that important to some people, but I find it a little sad when 'good enough' becomes the acceptable norm for standards. People don't seem that interested in having 'great' audio these days. Maybe great audio is a dying commodity? Shame.

My view on this debate... buy something that is dedicated to the job. On the whole, it will be so much better than something that's there just to tick a box, like on-board audio.

 

[LizardKing]

I've just given up on my x-fi elite pro after a decade of use (and only as I no longer have a pci slot)! Its quite shocking the on-board Realtek (alc892) is only on-par with it even after this long.

 

[EsaT]

The thing that gets me is pretty much everyone who goes with the on-board says 'it's good enough' or 'it's ok'. Sure, I get that audio is not that important to some people, but I find it a little sad when 'good enough' becomes the acceptable norm for standards. People don't seem that interested in having 'great' audio these days. Maybe great audio is a dying commodity? Shame.

Great game audio pretty much died when Microsoft killed DirectSound and hardware acceleration/"rendering" of sounds in that pile of dung called Vista.
(likely as another move to dumb PC down to level of Xbox)
And now we're limited to lossy prebaked channels with true sound source distance and vertical location information having been lost.
Good accurate headphones and binaural sound simulation done by sound card directly from original sound data of game would be far better than typical sound now.

As for simple signal recording and converting digital signal to analog things, technology has passed human ear's accuracy years ago.
For example these advertised higher than CD resolution sound formats are pretty much BS.
And any sighted listening is just biased as hell by psychological factors and testing should be done scientifically.

Using world-class headphones, a $2 Realtek integrated audio codec could not be reliably distinguished from the $2000 Benchmark DAC2 HGC in a four-device round-up. Again, all four devices sounded great.
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733-19.html​

I've just given up on my x-fi elite pro after a decade of use (and only as I no longer have a pci slot)! Its quite shocking the on-board Realtek (alc892) is only on-par with it even after this long.

While not hissy cassette/scratchy vinyl, ALC892 isn't even at level of entry level Audigy Fx, regardless if its implementation on motherboard is perfect.
That ALC889 of Tomshardware's test is basically class higher in technical signal quality capability and at level of budget/entry level sound cards.

 

[JasonM]

Just picking up on the Realtek thing, this is not actually an issue, as it's the circuitry after the Realtek chip that causes the issues.

On my main Hi Fi I use the on board Realtek into an external Pioneer DAC/Amp via Spdif, can't fault it at all. At one stage I actually was using the Spdif from an Asus Essense ST (into the Pioneer DAC/Amp), and decided instead just to use the Realtek.

So it's the digital to analogue side of motherboard audio that's the issue, if you output digitally from a motherboard that is ok.

 

[JasonM]

And now we're limited to lossy prebaked channels with true sound source distance and vertical location information having been lost.

Some of the most intense game audio I ever had was from a Gravis Ultrasound running DOS based Doom and Heretic.

On paper is was pretty limited by today hardware , but somehow so much depth and fullness to the sound, you had this sense that every sound including the music channels were all separated and independent. Sound from the Gravis was clean with very little line level noise.

 

[rids57]

On my main Hi Fi I use the on board Realtek into an external Pioneer DAC/Amp via Spdif, can't fault it at all. At one stage I actually was using the Spdif from an Asus Essense ST (into the Pioneer DAC/Amp), and decided instead just to use the Realtek.

If you're using SPDIF you're not using the Realtek, the digital data is passed to the external DAC and that does all the work

 

[Bluntwrapped]

I’ve owned the AE-5 since new - I’d really struggle to do without it now. Pairing my MR1’s with it was like a match made in heaven

I’m desperate for someone to make a decent 3 slot ITX case so I can do a SFF build with dedicated graphics and sound.

 

[Marsman]

The thing that gets me is pretty much everyone who goes with the on-board says 'it's good enough' or 'it's ok'. Sure, I get that audio is not that important to some people, but I find it a little sad when 'good enough' becomes the acceptable norm for standards. People don't seem that interested in having 'great' audio these days. Maybe great audio is a dying commodity? Shame.

My view on this debate... buy something that is dedicated to the job. On the whole, it will be so much better than something that's there just to tick a box, like on-board audio.

Fair enough if you are talking about good quality headphones or speakers; but for cheap headsets/PC speakers, onboard audio really is good enough. Spending more on something 'great' would be a waste of money, because 'cheap headset/PC speakers' won't have the quality to reveal any better sound quality differences over onboard audio.

You wouldn't buy a £120 SoundblasterX AE-5 for a £20 headset; although, I'm sure there's someone that has done that... You know what they say about a fool and his money.

 

[EsaT]

You know what they say about a fool and his money.

That's why we have all these gaming branded trinket headphones...
And Sennheiser GSX with its huge overpricing for low end hardware.

 

[JasonM]

If you're using SPDIF you're not using the Realtek, the digital data is passed to the external DAC and that does all the work

Yes but your still using the Realtek to drive the SPDIF.

 

[Trebz]

Coincidentally I just came here to create a post about this very subject. I have a Gigabyte GA-ME770T-UD3P Rev 1.0 and have been using a Creative Soundblaster Audigy since the day it was released, I've cherished this soundcard for years and it's been in every PC I have ever built for home use and gaming. I just re installed Windows 10 on my PC and have removed the Soundblaster Audigy and have started using the on-board sound that comes with the Gigabyte GA-ME770T-UD3P. The surround sound works through my Creative 5.1 speaker system but my questions is:

Which is better the Soundblaster or the Gigabyte GA-ME770T-UD3P on board sound device?

Here's a few pictures of my trusty old Soundblaster: