Sourdough and starters

[famas]

Those waffles look amazing, going to try them next.

As for the waffles I made, I only left the mixture to rest for 1 hour before using as it starts as batter rather than a dough.

Again the pizza dough I made around 3pm. Mixed all the ingredients in a large bowl then folded the mixture every 30 mins or so. Then for the last 30 mins I formed the dough into a ball and quick proved it in the oven at 35c.
This seems to really get the yeast going and forms nice air pockets. I stretch it straight away, add the toppings and back into the oven on a pizza stone at 230c for 12 mins.


I'm not completely sold on fridge proving......yet, I don't know if its a fad thing or not? the Egyptians wouldn't have be able to do it back in the day?

Maybe a slower prove helps to develop flavour but I watched a video recently from a Neapolitan pizza maker who was adamant you should never fridge dough.

I honestly am on the fence at the moment BUT I have a sourdough loaf in the fridge tonight which I'll bake in the morning and let you know

 

[jpaul]

I'm not completely sold on fridge proving......yet

personally I've not used fridge for proving, just overnight counter-top;
only keeping left over dough fridged in suspended animation to use within 72hours, any more time, it seems to loose structure/become soggy .. over-proven I guess.

I need to look through web again ... but I think the Neopolitan is also using low protein/gluten,non-strong flour, to come out as a a cake'y/biscuity texture, versus the strong flour (like you would also use in bread) softer chicago/high-rise pizza bases I do.
[I don't think I have high enough temperatures in my electric oven w/pizza-stone to attempt neopolitan, and have not yet purchased/tried any of the flour from pizza thread Amazon recommendations]



(in another direction - noted JS now have big advertising placards in stores announcing sourdough pizza bases, for instore cooked I think ... all aboard)

 

[famas]

I think most Neapolitan pizzas are made with 00 tippo flour which I believe has a gluten content of around 12% which is similar to strong bread flour?

I tried counter top proving dough for about 18 hours and it came out way over proved. I think 12 hours max is the limit.
That maybe way people retard the dough in the fridge so they can make it the night before and use it when they get home from work the next day.

Does a 20+ hour retarded dough taste better than a 12 hour ambient temperature prove? I dunno.

But this loaf I made last night and retarded in the fridge for 12 hours. I added some dark rye flour and it tastes excellent!

Recipe
400g very strong white bread flour
100g dark rye flour
250g starter
5g sea salt
pinch of sugar
270ml water



I added some sesame seeds and Nigella seeds for a bit more flavour.



Crumb is pretty good. I'd like it a little more open but I think its down to my folding technique not being quite right.



Baguettes is next!

 

[famas]

Baked the baguette this morning. Same recipe as above but used 125g of 00 flour and 125g of very strong white flour.

Got a nice crunchy crust.





and a nicer crumb this time.
I used the fold method but also kneaded the dough a little too which i think helped.

 

[GhostlyPea]

Looks top notch, making me quite hungry

- GP

 

[famas]

I had a go at the waffles from the previous page this morning.
I made the mix last night and kept it in the fridge.

The recipe calls for 135g of pearl sugar but I only bought 70g which I added this morning.
Even with 70g they where just right I think, wouldn't want them any sweeter.



The dough was very sticky so had to use my scraper to work it.



I substituted the fast action yeast for sourdough starter and lessened the amount of flour to compensate.

Because the mix is more like dough than batter it was tricky getting a good shape in the waffle iron.



I let the mix cook for a few seconds which softens it up then I was able to spread it out more evenly.

They rose a surprising amount!



Indeed they are delicious waffles! I ate them on there own with no toppings. Nice and sweet and the pearl sugar gives a nice crunch too.

I also made another baguette. Same recipe as earlier but I added more water 160g and I also added 1g of dried active yeast.

The dough was so wet I didn't think it would come out well at all. It was so sticky I could barely shape it. I did my best to shape it and put it in the fridge over night.
Cooked it off this morning for 15 mins. 5 mins with steam them 10 without and it came out perfect!



Nice crunchy chewy crust and great flavour.

So that's my carbs sorted for the day.



Back to work tomorrow so the baking will slow down now. will be spare time at the weekends only .

 

[jpaul]

Gauffres look excellent,
like the earlier recipe you posted, I was surpsised how rich the recipe was, so definitely several of the five a day.

sourdough loaf last night with mixed fruit, molasses, all spice, 320g brown, 100g white, 100g einkorn (have also tried Khorasan, local grocer had it)

 

[famas]

That looks tasty!

 

[Mr Jack]

I am trying my first sourdough loaf today. I began the starter on Monday - I used 1:1:1 white flour:wholemeal flour:water mixture and threw in a couple of plums from the neighbours' plum tree to help get the yeast going which I removed after 24 hours - and fed it on Wednesday and Friday. Today, I've tried my first small loaf. I'm not convinced I got it right since it didn't really feel right when kneading but maybe that's just because I'm not used to sourdough? It's currently going through it's first rise. I put it on at 10.30, and I understand 4-8 hours is normal, so I'll see how it goes later today.

 

[jpaul]

was it bubbling like hell , with acidic taste ? 4-5 days is quite fast to get a starter consolidated imhop

mother(white) and baby(wholewheat), after 12hrs/14C starting from fridge,
after re-feeding mother and giving 3tbs for baby +40/60 flour/water - will make some pizza bases with baby this evening

 

[Mr Jack]

was it bubbling like hell , with acidic taste ? 4-5 days is quite fast to get a starter consolidated imhop

Yes, bubbly and acidic, I've no experience of starters so I don't know whether it was at the level it should be. I know it's young and I expect it improve, but I figured it was worth a try already

 

[famas]

I think for best results you need to feed the starter with 50/50 ratio flour water every 12 hours for 7 days. This should get your starter just about ready after a week.
If I'm reading right you only fed your starter 3 times in a week?

I think it will likely be to young to get a well rising loaf just yet.
Also your starter should smell nice and sweet/yeasty, like fermenting fruit. If it smells floury and damp its not ready yet.

I'd say you should start getting a decent rise from your starter after about a month.

I keep mine in the fridge now and feed it once a week.

One of the most important things with sourdough and getting a good rise is to learn how to "shape" the dough, I can't stress this enough!
If you don't shape the dough correctly the loaf will always spread sideways and not up.

Bake with jack has a good video on how to shape.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww78_SfGyQE

He's also done a video on the "windowpane test"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdXQEP-DNNY&t=274s

Also the amount of starter used will affect how the dough behaves.
I'm getting good results from using half of my flours weight in starter. So if I'm using 500g of flour I'll add 250g of starter.

 

[Mr Jack]

I think for best results you need to feed the starter with 50/50 ratio flour water every 12 hours for 7 days. This should get your starter just about ready after a week.
If I'm reading right you only fed your starter 3 times in a week?

Yeah, every other day, so 3.5/week. The idea of adding fruit at the start is to kickstart the process and make it ready a bit faster. Not sure that worked

Bake with jack has a good video on how to shape.

Thanks for the vids.

Also the amount of starter used will affect how the dough behaves.
I'm getting good results from using half of my flours weight in starter. So if I'm using 500g of flour I'll add 250g of starter.

I did 125g starter in a 400g loaf (as I said: a small loaf), so not far from that ratio.

 

[Mr Jack]

And it worked out okay. Not great, but edible and reasonably tasty. Hopefully it'll be better next time.

 

[famas]

Finally got my banneton through the post so set out making a sourdough loaf.

Needed to make more dough, I wasn't sure how big a loaf the banneton would hold.



Still got the nice tram lines in the top though.



I'm slowly getting better loaves every time.
This loaf was made with Allison seed and grain bread flour. It's a white flour with a mix of seeds, rye and grains.
It made an excellent loaf with loads of flavour. Will be getting more of it for sure.



It was tasty just with butter but I also made a cheese, tomato and onion sandwich too



I've also been making baguettes every weekend too which are my favourite bread so far, they always come out great and are so tasty.
I was after getting some proper t55 flour and came across this website.

Has any one bought from them before, going to make up a big order to save on shipping.
https://www.shipton-mill.com/flour-direct/french-white-flour-type-55-102.htm

 

[jpaul]

Without a diversity agenda ... another sweet loaf

cocoa powder/sugar + mixed-fruit, added to dough. had run out of blackstrap molasses

Am considering ground almonds, or coconut, as future options, and also, wondering how I might incorporate rum ? (w/o killing sourdough)

 

[famas]

Interesting mix Paul, What was it like?

Was it bread or more cake like?

 

[jpaul]

It was still bread, and if anything I did not add enough cocoa power (maybe only a couple ot tbsp's) to make it chocolately enough;
need to check a chocolate cake recipe.

I thing you could make it more cakey with melted butter / eggs to richen it up like an Italian pannetone

 

[famas]

Not had a lot of time over the past few weeks for baking but did mange to make another full loaf in the banneton which I stupidly covered in cling film.
It rose a a lot more than I was expecting and stuck like glue to the cling film. I had to degas the loaf and prove it again but it came out okay in the end, not a complete disaster.



Also made another pizza which I cooked in the oven mostly then finished off under the grill (for a little to long!)
Really have to keep an eye on it under the grill.



Also ordered a bunch of different flour from Shipton Mill.



Main one was some type 55 french flour for baguettes.



Excellent service, order came next day.

I also made a couple of bakers Lames for fun. they are much better for scoring bread over a knife.



I couldn't wait to try some of the t55 flour so tonight I made a quick baguette.

Recipe was
100g t55 flour
50g sourdough stater
3g salt
very small pinch of sugar
70g water with 2g fresh yeast dissolved into it.

Only folded once and proved for an hour but wow what a difference the fresh yeast makes.



It came out really well for a quick effort. Nice crunchy outside with an open crumb inside.



If I get time over the weekend I'll have another go with a long prove and more folds.
I do love a baguette.

 

[jpaul]

baguettes look good - per French rules, definitely not machine made UK would be better if we had boulangeries
shiptons direct eh ... seems they are 1kg - you either have a massive quanity or 1kg ... have you tried Bacheldre too.


Have had some dense loaves using partial Stoneground Rye flour, it seems I might need a new starter, so I may strart a new genetic line

Rye is higher in the enzymes (amylases) that break down starch into sugars. Starch is needed to form the structure of the crumb, and if too much starch is split up, the texture of the bread suffers and becomes gummy. Traditionally, this is prevented by acidifying the rye dough, which slows down the action of amylases. This is why breads with a high percentage of rye flour are made with rye sour (rye-based sourdough starter), even if commercial yeast is added.

the recipe on the packet using rye/white 50:50 plus molasses and cocoa powder looks interesting