Spain Train Crash

G-MAN2004 · 25 Jul 2013 at 17:18

majnu said:
I'm catching a train in an hour, not what I wanted to see.

Do you worry about driving a car every time you hear of a car accident? :confused:

Craig1981 · 25 Jul 2013 at 17:25

[TW]Fox;24665463 said:
Mainline rail services in the UK frequently travel at speeds of up to 200kph and Kent domestic services can reach speeds of 140mph (225kph). Eurostar will reach 186mph (300kph) whilst in Kent, too.

Oh...

darael · 25 Jul 2013 at 17:38

majnu said:
also I want to say I am disgusted by this mobile phone let's not help people but take a video so me can get it on the news and make money generation. ffs people are trapped, hurt and need help and all people can do is take a ****ing video with their phone.

shadow_boxer · 25 Jul 2013 at 17:49

Yeah, saw this earlier. Very dramatic footage. Spanish media reporting that this bend was of concern long before this incident. Can't imagine the driver being 100Km/h the speed limit on purpose. Very sad for everyone concerned.

The Funktopus · 25 Jul 2013 at 18:26

The train in Spain derails mainly on the plain.

wesley · 25 Jul 2013 at 18:46

same curve in video where this train derailed. http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/07/25/videos/1374763656_833539.html?autoplay=1

how the earth the driver think 190kph would be ok! unless something faulty with system

grudas · 25 Jul 2013 at 18:53

if this is drivers mistake then what the hell, must be done on purpose inexperienced driver would never be allowed to control a thing of this size + with that many people inside so he must have been experienced + qualified + have passed that corner a million times..

must be a malfunction or done on purpose.

but then again i can't believe there would be no electronic limitations to it, no person should have the control of something like this IMO.

RIP to those that went.

MooMoo444 · 25 Jul 2013 at 18:55

Heard on the radio that the death toll is currently at 80

Such a waste of lives

[TW]Fox · 25 Jul 2013 at 19:02

grudas said:
must be a malfunction or done on purpose.

You don't slow a train when you see a corner, it's done long before - if a sign is missed then by the time you can see the corner its too late to scrub that much speed off. It is nothing like driving a car where you see a corner then slow down for it.

but then again i can't believe there would be no electronic limitations to it,

There are but they relate to passing red signals not overspeed.

Mr Joshua · 25 Jul 2013 at 19:08

[TW]Fox;24666001 said:
if a sign is missed then by the time you can see the corner its too late to scrub that much speed off.

Route knowledge should also be taken into consideration, surely they would have known that this slow speed corner was approaching.

Jokester · 25 Jul 2013 at 19:09

Westyfield2 said:
Whoa, that looks like a big one. I guess the rear-facing seats might help you a bit, but yeah interesting that trains don't have any of the seatbelts/pretensioners/headrests/airbags etc that a car has.

According to one report, "State-owned train operator Renfe said in a statement that 218 passengers and an unspecified number of staff were on board at the time of the accident."... on an average British train they wouldn't have a clue how many people were on board!

I suspect you couldn't get on the train there without a prepaid ticket, unlike many parts of the UK where you can still get on the train before you get a ticket.

[TW]Fox · 25 Jul 2013 at 19:09

Mr Joshua said:
Route knowledge should also be taken into consideration, surely they would have known that this slow speed corner was approaching.

Well yes, you'd like to hope so

Kishywish · 25 Jul 2013 at 19:24

The Funktopus said:
The train in Spain derails mainly on the plain.

Terrible, but funny.

fez · 25 Jul 2013 at 19:25

Numerour people are saying that there are systems that should stop this sort of thing happening by limiting the speed of the train in certain areas. These systems must be hugely automated for safety when you consider the fact that there could have been many more hundreds of people on the train.

Mr Joshua · 25 Jul 2013 at 19:30

[TW]Fox;24666038 said:
Well yes, you'd like to hope so

And then you have people/the media making a joke about trains being cancelled in this country because the driver has never been on that route, people don't seem to realise it is to stop incidents like this from occurring.

Firestar_3x · 25 Jul 2013 at 19:32

fez said:
Numerour people are saying that there are systems that should stop this sort of thing happening by limiting the speed of the train in certain areas. These systems must be hugely automated for safety when you consider the fact that there could have been many more hundreds of people on the train.

The train does have systems which informs the driver of the next signal colour, in addition his speed display changes with max speed values allowed on that track section iirc.

Some warnings can be manually overridden by the driver, other track warnings can't, and will result in the train slowing down or comming to a stop.

Tom_ed1987 · 25 Jul 2013 at 19:36

Jesus, hadn't seen that crash video before. Terrifying

Janesy B · 25 Jul 2013 at 19:37

majnu said:
also I want to say I am disgusted by this mobile phone let's not help people but take a video so me can get it on the news and make money generation. ffs people are trapped, hurt and need help and all people can do is take a ****ing video with their phone.

You're a funny one, for sure.

ExRayTed · 25 Jul 2013 at 19:39

[TW]Fox;24666001 said:
You don't slow a train when you see a corner, it's done long before - if a sign is missed then by the time you can see the corner its too late to scrub that much speed off. It is nothing like driving a car where you see a corner then slow down for it.

There are but they relate to passing red signals not overspeed.

Not strictly true Fox. TPWS, ATP and ERTMS all have the facility to prevent a train from hitting a curve at dangerous speeds. That line is relatively new and should have been fitted with ERTMS or at least a variant of TPWS. Why the train was allowed to hit a 50mph curve at 118mph will be central to the investigation.

As an aside this has confirmed what I've thought about the direction our railway is taking for a long time. There is an over-reliance on safety systems by some drivers (particularly newer drivers) which has led to a loss of fear and respect for the reality of an accident like this.

Either you fit the technology properly and utilise it, effectively taking the driver out of the decision making loop with the required train speed reductions (not remove them from the front of the train) or take it all away. This line of thinking that the technology will keep me safe is breeding a lack of respect for the dangers.

[TW]Fox · 25 Jul 2013 at 19:49

ExRayTed said:
Not strictly true Fox. TPWS, ATP and ERTMS all have the facility to prevent a train from hitting a curve at dangerous speeds. That line is relatively new and should have been fitted with ERTMS or at least a variant of TPWS. Why the train was allowed to hit a 50mph curve at 118mph will be central to the investigation.

The line in question isn't fitted with ERTMS though and I don't think it has TPWS either