Spanish Football 2011-2012

[mp260767]

Barca's problem is their defence/defenders...

classic quote on sky sports spanish football coverage:

"problem with the barca defence is there not used to defending...."

was a bit surprised that xavi & cesc were on the bench for the start last night.

still don't understand why madrid are so open at the back, maurinho usually works with a decent defence

 

[MR_Punk]

It could be something to do with Pepe and Ramos wanting to kick players and roll around on the floor. Pepe last night was so so poor. I'm a massive fan of Ramos but he does let him self down from time to time with lack of discipline and his shall we say eccentricity. Pepe can just be an embarrassment. Also their full backs aren't exactly world class either. Arbeloa is OK but nothing special and as good as Marcelo going forward is he's no Dani Alves. Coentrão on the other hand just seems steady.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Mourinho need's a decent defence, his defensive player buying record at Chelsea wasn't great, nor really at Inter and certainly not at Real so far.

At Chelsea he had Gallas and Terry, with Melchiot a more than solid player and Makelele infront of them, forget who the other fullback was.

At inter he had Samuel, Zanetti and did do a good piece of business in getting Lucio, but he turned Chelsea slowly from an ultra attacking squad into a defensive one, Inter became the most defensive team in the history of football, at Real he isn't allowed to do that, plays a lot of attacking players, started off with a ropey defence and without playing 10 behind the ball like Inter, hasn't improved it at all.


Guardiola, I've said before many times Barca don't have a great defence and they are vunerable, just that most teams didn't try to attack them, many teams who have, have made Pique look like a joke. But in that game he simply decided that the team they were playing was so weak they could play a woefully understrength side and get away with it.

Though there is probably a little measure of giving up on the league and focusing on the champs league. Still keeping his three best central midfielders on the bench and playing Messi again, who looks tired and for him has been very very out of form in the past 6-8 weeks. he's scored and he's had good games but he's been far less involved and missed a lot more chances than normal. Just very very poor management. Resting Messi and playing young fresh pacey wingers(of whom they have many) and giving Ineista or Cesc a game in Xavi's role was probably the way to go. Playing their "star" who is tired, and resting Iniesta who hasn't played all that much lately was just stupid in every way.


We haven't seen Guardiola under pressure or being in second in the league, since he's been under pressure his decisions have gotten worse and, rather like Mancini, he doesn't seem to be finding the answers to turn it around right now, instead making odd decisions game after game.

 

[mp260767]

It could be something to do with Pepe and Ramos wanting to kick players and roll around on the floor.

during the match commentary they did say about the number of red cards ramos has got, and the fact a fair number of them are really stupid ones.


DM:

With Iniesta i think it was a case of them trying to ease him back in after his injury, but can't see any reason for cesc not to play with the goal scoring form he's in at the moment.

what i did find funny was them mentioning that barca were finding the conditions hard to play there style of football on, much as i like how they normally play i couldn't for the life of me understand why they didn't change things.

there not going to play lump the ball cos they don't have the players but i would have thought they could have done more.

as for messi, daft as it sounds i can't get around the fact he's unshaven, not used to seeing that and the fact he looks pretty sullen at the moment.

 

[MR_Punk]

during the match commentary they did say about the number of red cards ramos has got, and the fact a fair number of them are really stupid ones.

Wasn't it something like 12 red cards and he's what 25/26. If I were to play against him I'd wind him up all game and just wait for him to do something stupid. In fact I would be quite fun playing against Pepe and Ramos if you could get under their skin. Unless Pepe starts kicking again

 

[mp260767]

Wasn't it something like 12 red cards and he's what 25/26. If I were to play against him I'd wind him up all game and just wait for him to do something stupid. In fact I would be quite fun playing against Pepe and Ramos if you could get under their skin. Unless Pepe starts kicking again

could have been something like that, just remember them saying most of them had been stupid ones .

long as you remember to do it when your not playing at their stadium otherwise pepe would turn your legs into bloody stumps lol.

 

[mehuk]

Over analyzing of a Barcelona defeat.

Seriously they are only 10pts adrift because Real have been stupidly consistent, 19 wins from 22. Too many people wanting this Barca team to fail/break up because it is so good.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Over analyzing of a Barcelona defeat.

Seriously they are only 10pts adrift because Real have been stupidly consistent, 19 wins from 22. Too many people wanting this Barca team to fail/break up because it is so good.

No, they are 10 points adrift because they've drawn 6 and lost 2 in 22 games, Barca drew 6 and lost 2 games last season in the whole season, in 38 games.

Real were consistent last year as well, in fact they've been consistent for the past two seasons at least with the last season before Mourinho breaking records IIRC in terms of away wins and the like and only being.

last season they were 4 points off Barca, the season before they were only 3 points off, the season before that it was 9 points. Barca are noticeably, very very noticeably less good than last season. Real are marginally better which isn't entirely surprising.

By basically every single measure Barca have gotten worse compared to last year to a much bigger degree than Real have improved over last year.

 

[jakeke]

All that and Real are still embarrassingly poor compared to Barca in any Classico

 

[jonneymendoza]

All that and Real are still embarrassingly poor compared to Barca in any Classico

Doesnt matter. League titles aint won by beating your nearest title rivals. they are won by beating Osasuna etc

 

[mp260767]

Doesnt matter. League titles aint won by beating your nearest title rivals. they are won by beating Osasuna etc

that's as maybe but managers have been sacked after winning the league and champs league, getting beat so often by barca isn't doing murinho any favours in securing his job.

 

[jakeke]

Doesnt matter. League titles aint won by beating your nearest title rivals. they are won by beating Osasuna etc

Not really, La Liga is a meaningless joke, what does it prove that Real's billion pound squad can beat a £5m Osasuna team? The two teams will be measured in Europe/against each other imo. Real are just inferior and a La Liga title won't change a thing

 

[drunkenmaster]

Yup also, honestly even the best teams in the world have bad years, none of the top leagues have title winners who just win every year. I mean take Utd, win the title a few years in a row, have a great squad, buy great players, still lose the odd title. Chelsea build an expensive squad, win a couple titles but still eventually lose. Barca have been a give or take excellent team for a decade, and Real won a couple titles not even that long ago with for me, a worse team than Barca.

Crap happens basically, with the Ronaldinho/Deco team, complacency set in, form dropped off and titles were lost even though the same guys won titles before.

Barca are giving this one away just as much if not more than Real are actually winning it.

Fact is there is still not far off half a season to go and anything can happen. Barca could get back to form, if Ronaldo got injured Real could fall to pieces. 10 points is a lot but not insurmountable....... just unlikely to be gotten back especially on current form.

Thing is though Barca's problems have been more Guardiola mistakes than Barca lacking quality. Randomly playing a 3-4-3 out of no where and dropping points, doing the same a couple weeks later and dropping more points. This weekend dropping all but the least consistent midfielder in Sanchez, and dropping yet more points. It's pretty much self inflicted, largely when Guardiola seems to think the team can't lose that game he tries something new and bang, points lost, arrogance, maybe.

People seem to forget, of the last 5 years of the league, Real have won two titles, for two seasons Real have only been max 4 points behind Barca, hardly a massive margin. Winning el Classico's has been the direct difference between Barca beating real to the last 5 titles, can't be bothered to work out the other ones.

Basically since the 2008-2009 season started Barcelona haven't lost an El Classico, one draw and 6 wins, in each season had Real won those 2 games they would have won the title. In the two years before that, Real didn't lose an El Classico and won the title both years.

The title is decided directly on the el classico in MOST seasons, in each of the past 5 seasons and could still happen this year.

 

[mehuk]

No, they are 10 points adrift because they've drawn 6 and lost 2 in 22 games, Barca drew 6 and lost 2 games last season in the whole season, in 38 games.

Real were consistent last year as well, in fact they've been consistent for the past two seasons at least with the last season before Mourinho breaking records IIRC in terms of away wins and the like and only being.

last season they were 4 points off Barca, the season before they were only 3 points off, the season before that it was 9 points. Barca are noticeably, very very noticeably less good than last season. Real are marginally better which isn't entirely surprising.

By basically every single measure Barca have gotten worse compared to last year to a much bigger degree than Real have improved over last year.

6 draws and 2 defeats isnt a bad return and is fantastic for a whole season.

Barca havent got any worse, Real have improved and thats that.

Barca still won the Super Cup, Euro Super Cup, World Clubs iirc ... walked through the Chumps League group... still in the Copa Del Rey iirc and although 10pts behind, could still win the league but if not have pretty much 2nd wrapped up and thus Chumps League again.

Its all hype and drama and its made worse by the fact Sky are getting their teeth firmly implanted into Spanish football meaning that they can turn it into another soap opera circus with wild speculation and sheer ignorance. Problem is 90% of the viewers all buy into it, either because they dont understand the game or more than likely just dont understand the Spanish League and its teams.

2 defeats in 22 is still a solid return, too many people love to believe that La Liga is Real Madrid, Barcelona and 18 Crewe Alexandras.. when infact there are a lot of good teams with good players in the league, which is why its so cluttered from 4th to about 16th.

 

[drunkenmaster]

6 draws and 2 defeats isnt a bad return and is fantastic for a whole season.

Barca havent got any worse, Real have improved and thats that.

Barca still won the Super Cup, Euro Super Cup, World Clubs iirc ... walked through the Chumps League group... still in the Copa Del Rey iirc and although 10pts behind, could still win the league but if not have pretty much 2nd wrapped up and thus Chumps League again.

Its all hype and drama and its made worse by the fact Sky are getting their teeth firmly implanted into Spanish football meaning that they can turn it into another soap opera circus with wild speculation and sheer ignorance. Problem is 90% of the viewers all buy into it, either because they dont understand the game or more than likely just dont understand the Spanish League and its teams.

2 defeats in 22 is still a solid return, too many people love to believe that La Liga is Real Madrid, Barcelona and 18 Crewe Alexandras.. when infact there are a lot of good teams with good players in the league, which is why its so cluttered from 4th to about 16th.

*******

Lets try this once more.

Last season Barca played 38 games, won 30, drew 6 and lost 2.

This season Barca have so far played 22 games, won 14, drawn 6 and lost 2.

They have drawn 6 and lost two in 16 games LESS than last season. That is categorically worse no matter which way you look at it. To say its not while quoting those numbers is beyond completely absurd.

They dropped 12 points in 38 games last season, they have already dropped 12 points in only 22 games this season...... Barca haven't gotten worse, sure...........

 

[mehuk]

So the league strength is exactly the same every year, and no matter what the results have to be the same or a team has got worse?

Facts are:

Barca still in title race
Barca are still in the Spanish Cup
Barca are still in the Chumps League
Barca won all the meanial Super Cups (Spanish, Euro, World).

They have lost just 2 games so far, who is to say they wont repeat what they did at the start of 2010/11 by winning 16 on the spin?

You are assuming that they will have a much worse record than in 10/11 - even another draw and a defeat is not a bad season, but if Real are having a unbelievable season by winning 19/22 and carry on that form to say win 33 games... its not because Barca are worse as a team.

Anymore abuse you want to throw my way?

 

[Stewy]

To be fair the fact they've dropped as many points in 22 games as they'd dropped in 38 last season is a pretty clear indication that they're playing worse? :/

 

[drunkenmaster]

So the league strength is exactly the same every year, and no matter what the results have to be the same or a team has got worse?

Facts are:

Barca still in title race
Barca are still in the Spanish Cup
Barca are still in the Chumps League
Barca won all the meanial Super Cups (Spanish, Euro, World).

They have lost just 2 games so far, who is to say they wont repeat what they did at the start of 2010/11 by winning 16 on the spin?

You are assuming that they will have a much worse record than in 10/11 - even another draw and a defeat is not a bad season, but if Real are having a unbelievable season by winning 19/22 and carry on that form to say win 33 games... its not because Barca are worse as a team.

Anymore abuse you want to throw my way?

YOu said categorically that Barca aren't worse, you claimed this was a FACT.

This is wrong, anyone who has watched Barca knows they aren't playing as well.

Your analysis of their season is, maybe if Barca win all 16 of their games left... they will end up with the same record as last year, while almost completely ignoring the possibility of Real losing the next 16, which is exactly as likely, as in, not likely at all and bordering on impossible.

It's actually statistically far more likely for Real to drop form than it is for Barca to gain winning every game left type form.

The only FACTS you've managed to state are which competitions they've won this year or are still in, all of which mean nothing.

Arsenal are still in the league, the champions league, the fa cup, does that mean they aren't worse than last year, no.

So in the unlikely scenario that Barca win all 16 games left, something so unlikely its literally not worth speculating on, then Barca haven't had a worse season than last year. Where as, the only actual fact is, they've lost/drawn as many games already this season as the entire of last season. Most people simply take a worse win rate over a decent number of games as fairly telling, but you don't because you predict an almost impossible run to "fix" their season.

On current form I'd be surprised if Barca didn't lose/draw another 3-4 games, which will both mean, they've had a worse season than last year, and they will likely drop more points vs last season than Real gain vs last season.

But I'll leave you and your fact that Barca aren't worse than last season, despite performances, statistics, and just about every pundit, football writer, commentator and fan thinking otherwise.

 

[mehuk]

Barca won 16 on the spin last year its not so unlikely that they couldn't this year, but if you are going to argue that if barca end up with say 1 more draw than they did last year which makes them a worse team, then you are not worth my time and you can stick with all these pundits and your pub mates in slagging off barca as quite frankly anyone with an ounce of football knowledge and has played the game at a proper level knows that barca are not worse than last year and are behind Madrid mainly because real are just having a nuts start..75 goals in 22 games is wild and not in line with a standard season in itself.

Enjoy repeating yourself over and over again to feel that tiny bit better

 

[mehuk]

Oh and I'm on a. iPad so stick punctuation up it's jacksy