Spanish Football 2011-2012

Barca won 16 on the spin last year its not so unlikely that they couldn't this year, but if you are going to argue that if barca end up with say 1 more draw than they did last year which makes them a worse team, then you are not worth my time and you can stick with all these pundits and your pub mates in slagging off barca as quite frankly anyone with an ounce of football knowledge and has played the game at a proper level knows that barca are not worse than last year and are behind Madrid mainly because real are just having a nuts start..75 goals in 22 games is wild and not in line with a standard season in itself.

Enjoy repeating yourself over and over again to feel that tiny bit better :D

Your not getting it. re-read DM's post
 
Your not getting it. re-read DM's post

I do, he says Barca are worse than last year... I disagree and point out that just because they have potentially a worse league record this season than they finished up with last year, does not make them a worse team.

After 22 games last year Barca had lost at home, they havent this year... so are we talking about just away games? If you want to be pedantic about 'current record'.

Im stating that as a team and performance wise they are no worse off and although they have dropped points, the 10pt gap to Madrid is more due to the fact that Real have been immaculate.
 
I do, he says Barca are worse than last year... I disagree and point out that just because they have potentially a worse league record this season than they finished up with last year, does not make them a worse team.

Im stating that as a team and performance wise they are no worse off and although they have dropped points, the 10pt gap to Madrid is more due to the fact that Real have been immaculate.

This is the issue here I think - you're about the only person in the world with that opinion :p

Posted from personal yacht in the caribbean so screw your punctuation qualms ;):p
 
This is the issue here I think - you're about the only person in the world with that opinion :p

Posted from personal yacht in the caribbean so screw your punctuation qualms ;):p

Probably one of the few people who do have that opinion because im not guided by what Sky or Enrique Los Salsa says or whatever Spanish dipstick they have on the box.

I watched Barca last year and ive watched them this year. What I dont do is panic and buy into panic... look at game 2 last year.. home to Hercules... 2-0 defeat. Now im sure after that Drunkenmaster got on the web to scour for such results and compared that Barca to the team of 1925/26 and screamed blue murder that how dare they not have exaclty the same record every season...

Half a season is not enough to judge them on to compare to last year... and definately not on league record as what if for arguments sake Barca won their first 29 games, clinched the title and then heaven forbid drew 6 and lost 3 of the final 9!!! THAT WOULDNT BE AS GOOD AS THE YEAR BEFORE, HANG JOSEP NOW!!

Season
Season
Season

Its called that for a reason.

Enjoy the Carib'
 
I do, he says Barca are worse than last year... I disagree and point out that just because they have potentially a worse league record this season than they finished up with last year, does not make them a worse team.

not so much a worse team, as we're finding out about their squad, and a bit about pep.

with injuries the past couple of seasons they've been lucky were they've had 1/2 injuries to their main players at a time, and the other members of the squad have performed well.

this season the injuries are grouped together a bit more and the squad is under performing.

my main concern for barca is messi, he just doesn't seem to have the same energy as he's had the last couple of seasons and i'm wondering if its down to the fact he's over worked.

whereas xavi/iniesta are the heartbeat, he's the energy/drive and that seems to be lacking all round at the moment.

credit to pep he's trying to make them adaptable so they can switch formation to try and force the opposition to re think what there doing, but he seems to be struggling to get things right at the moment.

on the plus side for spanish football loving how well levante are doing at the moment, got my fingers crossed they can keep battling til the end of the season.
 
Probably one of the few people who do have that opinion because im not guided by what Sky or Enrique Los Salsa says or whatever Spanish dipstick they have on the box.

I watched Barca last year and ive watched them this year. What I dont do is panic and buy into panic... look at game 2 last year.. home to Hercules... 2-0 defeat. Now im sure after that Drunkenmaster got on the web to scour for such results and compared that Barca to the team of 1925/26 and screamed blue murder that how dare they not have exaclty the same record every season...

Last year they drew 6 and lost 2- 3 of those draws and one of those defeats were in the last 7 games as they season was over after they avoided defeat in Madrid. This season they have already drew 6 games and lost 2 with 16 games to go. It has been clear for months that they don't have the hunger for a long title battle this year.
 
Probably one of the few people who do have that opinion because im not guided by what Sky or Enrique Los Salsa says or whatever Spanish dipstick they have on the box.

I watched Barca last year and ive watched them this year. What I dont do is panic and buy into panic... look at game 2 last year.. home to Hercules... 2-0 defeat. Now im sure after that Drunkenmaster got on the web to scour for such results and compared that Barca to the team of 1925/26 and screamed blue murder that how dare they not have exaclty the same record every season...

Half a season is not enough to judge them on to compare to last year... and definately not on league record as what if for arguments sake Barca won their first 29 games, clinched the title and then heaven forbid drew 6 and lost 3 of the final 9!!! THAT WOULDNT BE AS GOOD AS THE YEAR BEFORE, HANG JOSEP NOW!!


THis is your problem, I'm not panicking, I DON'T CARE, merely commenting on the season. Anyone who actually watches Barca will see how much worse they are. Their worst performances this year are worse than their worst last year.

You've managed to rather daftly suggest that if Barca won the league THEN gave up and ended up without a great record that I'd care, firstly I wouldn't and as Owen B pointed out for you, that is exactly what happened last year. Their record had they not had say a CL final to play and tiredness to deal with, would likely have been noticeably better. They gave up a lot of points at the end of the season with a weakened team when there was nothing to play for. They are 10 points behind Real now, at no stage has there been nothing to play for, but for the last game they've rarely if ever played as weakened a team.

So last year 6 draws 2 losses was largely "as bad as that" because they gave up in the last few games. Had they carried their entire season form and tried for the last several games they'd probably have been on course for the exact record Real are currently heading for.

As said Barca could win 16 games, and Real could lose 16 games as well, in which case your again statement of fact that Real are better this year becomes laughable.

My argument is sound, I haven't said Barca's record won't improve over the second half of the season, its merely highly unlikely, with almost zero chance that Barca will match last seasons record, its unlikely enough that talking about it as a real possibility really is daft. But you want to consider Barca's end of season record, but you flat out claim that Real are better based on their current record and ignore the possibility they will have a crap final 16 games.

You argument is ridiculous, for one team only end season record counts, for the other team, only the current record counts, you're trying to compare both and you're using a ridiculously unlikely scenario in each situation to back up your claims.

I don't watch ANY sky analysis, or listen to ANY pundits on football. I simply watch Barca, the football I'm seeing is less good, the record speaks to that and while I won't and have not ignored the possibility of Barca having the best every 16 games they've ever had........ I'm also calmly and sensibly pointed out that matching their best ever run of games with a team playing worse than that time is so unlikely its a joke, something like 13-14 wins is significantly more likely but still on current form an improvement and would still cause a noticeably less good record on the season.
 
Id suggest that you were wrong if you are telling me that Barca had won the title after 29 games, or even earlier as you are suggesting then thats just a lie.

The title was mathmatically over in Week 37 when Barca drew..... so in the games preceeding in which you are telling me that they had nothing to play for.... infact they were still fighting for the title. Look at Week 29, 5pts was the difference ... are you that ignorant to really believe that with 9 games remaining and just 5pts the difference that Barca had the title 'sewn' up and thus took their foot off the gas?

I suggest you and Owen B consult each other and then do a joint reply, I do enjoy a debate but when you are both singing from the wrong hymn sheet it does get rather tedious for my ears.

Lets take your Real losing 16 straight... can you give me a recent example when Real have lost 16 on the spin? Just like I gave you a recent example of Barca winning 16 on the spin. Do you not understand that a season is 38 games... you could lose your first 8 and win the last 30 and have the same record as if you won your first 30 and lost your last 8... do the maths, its simple. Looks like ive got your number on that one.

If you are watching Barca week in week out and are saying they are worse compared to last season like for like, then I suggest you do the following:

Watch last season equivalent game and then this... shouldnt take you too long to catch up and realise that you have been barking up the wrong tree.
 
Wow, thats nice, accused of lying over telling you they'd won the title after 29 games...... without once mentioning 29 games, at all.

Am i that ignorant, no, the ignorant one would be the one making up things someone said then disproving them......

As for losing or winning 16 league games straight, I said BOTH were statistically almost impossible, I was pointing out that you are using something insanely unlikely as "proof" that Barca aren't worse, I was merely making an equally ridiculous and unlikely statement that would make your other statement that Real are much better, entirely wrong.

Here's summing up what you said....... Barca COULD win 16 games on the trot and end up with the same record, implying therefore that they aren't worse.

Here's what I said, Real COULD lose 16 games in a row and end up with a season far worse than last year.

I have stated BOTH of these are statistically improbable(think 0.0001% chance of either), yet you are assuming Barca could do this, while completely ignoring the possibility Real could lose 16 on the trot.

Your argument is flawed, you want to base Real being better ONLY on their CURRENT games won, yet when someone does this for Barca all we hear is the season, season season. So Barca might be as good as last season because they might win all 16 games left, but Real ARE better because of their CURRENT record.

You are contradicting yourself completely, on the one hand "you can't judge a team on this many games" on the other "I'm judging Real on their current games, not on the season".


Got my number, lets see, you're making up things others said, and doing basic maths, basic maths ASSUMING things that haven't happened, assuming things that are almost impossible to happen, and ONLY when it suits your argument.
 
blah blah blah.

I have been watching Barca fairly consistently since 2003 and they have been poor this season, by their standards. Villa was rubbish before his broken leg, Pedro has been injured for a lot of the season as has Afellay. Messi has been carrying the team, if he isn't scoring he is setting up goals, and it is starting to show as he he looking tired. The team also isn't as hungry to win the ball back as it has been which is a very important part of the team as winning the ball back high up the pitch creates a lot of good opportunities.
 
I have been watching Barca fairly consistently since 2003 and they have been poor this season, by their standards. Villa was rubbish before his broken leg, Pedro has been injured for a lot of the season as has Afellay. Messi has been carrying the team, if he isn't scoring he is setting up goals, and it is starting to show as he he looking tired. The team also isn't as hungry to win the ball back as it has been which is a very important part of the team as winning the ball back high up the pitch creates a lot of good opportunities.

Ive watched Barca whenever they have been on the box since Sky 'seriously' started coverage, iirc the Bobby Robson season with Ronaldo.

They have played and are playing as well as they ever have, obviously every team has their off nights... like they did last season.... but if they are poor they wouldnt be waltzing through the Chumps League, still in a title race.. only so far behind because Real are having a stunning start (no matter what Drunky thinks) and have won all the other minor silverware.

Afellay is carp anyway.
 
Wow, thats nice, accused of lying over telling you they'd won the title after 29 games...... without once mentioning 29 games, at all.

Am i that ignorant, no, the ignorant one would be the one making up things someone said then disproving them......

As for losing or winning 16 league games straight, I said BOTH were statistically almost impossible, I was pointing out that you are using something insanely unlikely as "proof" that Barca aren't worse, I was merely making an equally ridiculous and unlikely statement that would make your other statement that Real are much better, entirely wrong.

Here's summing up what you said....... Barca COULD win 16 games on the trot and end up with the same record, implying therefore that they aren't worse.

Here's what I said, Real COULD lose 16 games in a row and end up with a season far worse than last year.

I have stated BOTH of these are statistically improbable(think 0.0001% chance of either), yet you are assuming Barca could do this, while completely ignoring the possibility Real could lose 16 on the trot.

Your argument is flawed, you want to base Real being better ONLY on their CURRENT games won, yet when someone does this for Barca all we hear is the season, season season. So Barca might be as good as last season because they might win all 16 games left, but Real ARE better because of their CURRENT record.

You are contradicting yourself completely, on the one hand "you can't judge a team on this many games" on the other "I'm judging Real on their current games, not on the season".


Got my number, lets see, you're making up things others said, and doing basic maths, basic maths ASSUMING things that haven't happened, assuming things that are almost impossible to happen, and ONLY when it suits your argument.

You speak so much carp its unbelievable.. Barca have won 16 on the spin, just the season gone - its not that improbable. Real have lost 16 on the spin when? Its not possible, it wont happen bar all their players dieing in a plane crash caused by you.

You have no argument, just trying to get kudos points from your forum chums - Real have had a solid start thats all ive said, and 19 from 22 is. Ive not gone on about them losing 16, or even 1 more game... im talking Barca and stating that 10pts behind Real isnt as bad given how Real have started.

The facts on and off the pitch prove Barca are not worse than last season, im not saying better, but not worse. You can keep harping on about the same old pap' but at the end of the day you are the sort of person anyone with football knowledge ignores.
 
The last few pages are confusing. Real have 4 points more than last season and Barcelona have 13 less as well as a considerably worse goal difference. In other words, Barcelona are having a shocker in the league.
 
You speak so much carp its unbelievable.. Barca have won 16 on the spin, just the season gone - its not that improbable. Real have lost 16 on the spin when? Its not possible, it wont happen bar all their players dieing in a plane crash caused by you.

You have no argument, just trying to get kudos points from your forum chums - Real have had a solid start thats all ive said, and 19 from 22 is. Ive not gone on about them losing 16, or even 1 more game... im talking Barca and stating that 10pts behind Real isnt as bad given how Real have started.

The facts on and off the pitch prove Barca are not worse than last season, im not saying better, but not worse. You can keep harping on about the same old pap' but at the end of the day you are the sort of person anyone with football knowledge ignores.

Again, you have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

Does winning the lottery increase you chance of winning the lottery a second time? No, it categorically does not, just because Barca HAVE won 16 on the trot before does NOT make it any more likely to happen again. This is a VERY simple concept.

The fact that Barcelona have had great teams for dozens of seasons over the decades and haven't won 16 on the trot often, neither has any other team, makes it an incredibly improbable thing to happen.

Again, I made no claim about you saying anything about Real losing, try and keep up, I said that, I said it was highly unlikely, again your argument is total crap.

Barca aren't having a poor season because IF they win a bunch of games they MIGHT manage to match last seasons record, then you banged on about only being able to tell at the end of the season.

For Real though you are happy to take their current record, as pointed out for you a full 4 points better off than the same point last season....... wow Real are doing sooo much better than last season.

Here's a little basic maths for you, gap is 10 points, Real are 4 points better off than last season, the other 6 points come from how much worse Barca are doing, ok, which is bigger 4, or 6(and this is ignoring the other points because Barca were doing even better than Real at this point of the season, obviously. Real are epically fantastic, but, Barca were even better last season. So Barcelona being worse is quite obviously the BIGGER reason(6>4 ;) ) for the 10 point gap, and compared to the same point last season, Real are 4 points better off, if they lose the next game it might be 1 point, Barca are 13 points worse off, if they win the next game they could be only 10 points worse off(though obviously both depend on last season, its actually more likely that Barca would still be 13 points worse off). Real's "improvement" is statistically very small as in, 1 loss and its almost gone, Barca's difference is FAR bigger, both in terms of games required to close the gap AND percentage of points difference.

Barcelona are a great team, by a country mile ahead of 3rd in the league, they are still very obviously to anyone who has watched them both, playing worse, doing worse, and I guarentee you will not finish the season with a 30 win 6 draw 2 loss record.

Every time you post, you make up something I didn't say, you fail to grasp simple concepts, you have NO clue about probability, and you contradict every argument you make.

EDIT:- games in la liga, 2534, 80 seasons, since 1929, run of 16 wins in the past, 1. it's an incredibly unlikely occurence, even suggesting it's a real possibility again(especially given their form) is ridiculous.
 
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On the topic of Real Madrid how good do people think they actually are? Given La Liga is a two team league and they always lose to the other team is their current standing in world football based simply on the fact that Ronaldo plays for them? If anything Ronaldo typifies what Real Madrid are all about (beating the smaller sides but generally failing to deliver in the bigger games)

For this reason alone it's a shame both us and City aren't still in the Champions League as I'd be really interested to see how Real Madrid do against some better opposition and given the state of Chelsea at the moment and maybe to a lesser extent Arsenal they're probably not going to get the toughest of tests in the remainder of this seasons competition unless they meet Barca
 
Ronaldo is good against anyone, just half the rest of the team doesn't show up against Barca. Ozil was finally decent in the last game, but that was the first time I've seen him show up in a big game. Kaka is laughably poor for a 60million euro player, also doesn't show up for the big games(at least at Real), Alonso gets panicky, the entire defence up's their game from the usual "red alert" mode to "fire at will" mode and things get pretty dicey for opposition attackers and their careers being intact after the game :p

Real are playing better than last year as a whole but not really better than the latter part of the season.

Don't forget that Adebayor didn't score many for them last year(but his link up play was good), Benzema started the season in the same form as his first year, crap, and Higuain missed half the season. Real are 4 points better off and they've had an in form Higuain AND Benzema for the best part of half a season more than last year at the same point, 4 points better off with 2 in form strikers vs 4 points less and no form strikers to speak of is hardly stunning.

They haven't improved defensively, I'd say to a degree they loosely resemble old Arsenal with the utterly all out attack mentality, but we had a world class back 4 at the time, Real absolutely do not. Against Barca they absolutely know how poor their defence is because the defence shows it but just kicking everyone, and the attack shows it, by dropping deeper and deeper knowing how vunerable the defence actually is.

They can win the league as there is only one team they haven't been able to beat as yet, I can't see them winning champs league or most years the spanish cup as I just can't see them matching the best sides.

Hell, Arbeloa is by far their best defensive fullback......... and he's not particularly good.
 
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