Spanish Grand Prix 2011, Circuit de Catalunya- Race 5/19

Duke said:
How do you know they didn't immediately get to work on it? It could be they either can't get it to work within the rules/tests or it won't fit within the design of the car.

For all we know, Red Bull may have spent several years getting it working behind the scenes, before we even saw it on track.
Click to expand...

(going even further) I thought it was spelled out last season that while its called the "flexi- wing" it actually requires fundamental changes /design concepts within the chassis to work to start with. This leads me to believe (rightly or wrongly) that teams would have to take several steps backwards before they could really get the flexi-wing working.

One hellofa gamble if you ask me

sunama said:
RBR have had a single Winter to develop the device..
Click to expand...

What did you say about BS walking!!!

RBR have known about KERS coming back for a lot longer than a sngle winter - if they didnt want to work on it when it was first announced then thats their choice, but dont talk BS about them only having a winter to develop it

Skeeter said:
But thats just it. The tests are used to enforce the rules. If it passes the tests, its legal. Simple.
.
Click to expand...

If you dont see something happening then it doesnt happen!!!! LOL

If a kid hides behind a corner with his foot sticking out , can he be seen?

Just because the tests are used to enforce the rules, it bares no relation at all to whether the tests are adequate or not. The FIA are effectively "looking the other way" at the FACT that under motion the wing flexs beyond what the rules state is legal

sunama said:
Many people rate Button highly and over the last 20 races or so, he has shown that he is Button's superior.
Click to expand...

Only if you are wearing (very dark ) shaded - look at it objectively (look that word up if you dont understand it :) ) and its actually pretty even....even without taking into effect JB would have more points without Vettel wiping him out at Spa, and the McLaren fubar at Monaco

If JB was a better qualifier the points tally between the two would be scarily similar (comparing one person in their 5th season in the team with another in their 2nd)
 
Last edited:
J1nxy said:
I have a funny view of F1? Ok if you say so...I'm quite happy with my view thanks. I didn't realise I wasn't allowed to not like a particular driver or rate him...

I just don't like Hamiltons attitude, I think he is too quick to blame anybody and everybody else for problems and never looks at himself as being the cause. Alonso was like that when he switched from Renault to McLaren but he mellowed somewhere along the line and he is now a better driver, in my view , for it.

This being the same Vettel who has destroyed the rest of the field over the last couple of years on more than 1 occasion? The same Vettel who has continued to win races when things like KERS has failed which put him at a SIGNIFICANT disadvantage around the track to cars which do?
Click to expand...

It's not that you're not allowed to like anyone, it's that you're reasons seem to be completely unfounded.

I can't stand Manchester United but I respect their achievements and I would never say they don't deserve their wins because they've earned them.

I might not like them, but I have to rate them because their record speaks for itself.

I agree with you about Hamilton's attitude to a point but I think this season he is definitely improving. In Turkey when he effectively threw away a podium finish on the first lap he wasn't blaming anyone else. He said "I need to learn that the race isn't won at the first corner". Also when he nearly cried after winning in China was the first time I think I've seen any emotion from him.

In the past he's definitely been a bit of a queen, like sulking in his trailer after crashing into Webber at Singapore last year but I do think he's growing up and I think he will become a better driver for it (just like Alonso ;)). You have to remember he's still young.

You say Vettel has destroyed the field over the last two years but it's no surprise considering he has the fastest car on the grid. Last year he was being matched race for race by Webber in the same car and you've said yourself that you don't consider Webber to be in the same class as Vettel, Alonso or Button.

I have to agree with ZG002; put Alonso, Hamilton or Button in that RBR and they would be cleaning up just like Vettel is now.

Earlier on in this thread it was shown that out of his 14 victories, Vettel has only won two of them when he hasn't been leading from the front. Obviously he's done well to out qualify the rest of the field but it's just as much down to the car as it is to the driver (as seen in Barcelona as he was out qualified by Webber who you don't rate :confused:).

He's definitely a good driver, don't get me wrong. I would be a fool to try and deny it. Which is why I can't understand you trying to deny that Hamilton is a top driver when the evidence is against you?

If it's a personal dislike then fine but don't confuse that with a lack of ability.
 
Where have I said I don't rate him? go back and read my posts, I don't rate him as highly as Vettel or Alonso but put him in the same bracket as the likes of Button, Webber, Kubica and Rosberg. They are all exceptional drivers, they wouldn't be at the front of the F1 grid if they weren't, what I don't believe is that he is as good as Vettel or Alonso who both in my view deserve to win more than him.

I don't particularly like him and for me thats a good reason along with not being as good as Vettel or Alsono to deserve to win the championship.
 
FrankJH said:
If JB was a better qualifier the points tally between the two would be scarily similar (comparing one person in their 5th season in the team with another in their 2nd)
Click to expand...

Yeah...but he isn't a better qualifier, much like he isn't as fast as Hamilton.

Also, this isn't strictly true. We have seen a few times over the last 20 races, where Button and Hamilton a dicing with each other, yet on every occassion, it is Hamilton who finishes that race ahead of Button.

Qualifying pace is important, but Hamilton is just plain quicker and has proven that he can outscore Button on a consistent basis. That is fact.
 
J1nxy said:
I don't particularly like him and for me thats a good reason along with not being as good as Vettel or Alsono to deserve to win the championship.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if you are trying to say that Hamilton isn't as good as Alonso.
All I can say to that is that in 2007, Hamilton, in his début season, matched Alonso's points total.

I rate Alonso as the best driver in F1 right now, though Hamilton is very very close to him.

I can't really say any more than that.
 
J1nxy said:
Where have I said I don't rate him? go back and read my posts, I don't rate him as highly as Vettel or Alonso but put him in the same bracket as the likes of Button, Webber, Kubica and Rosberg. They are all exceptional drivers, they wouldn't be at the front of the F1 grid if they weren't, what I don't believe is that he is as good as Vettel or Alonso who both in my view deserve to win more than him.

I don't particularly like him and for me thats a good reason along with not being as good as Vettel or Alsono to deserve to win the championship.
Click to expand...

Considering that Hamilton beat Alonso when he was a rookie and Alonso a two time world champion when in the same car, I struggle to see how Alonso is better.
 
Alibaba99 said:
Considering that Hamilton beat Alonso when he was a rookie and Alonso a two time world champion when in the same car, I struggle to see how Alonso is better.
Click to expand...

During that year, after the fiasco at Hungary, Alonso had virtually no support from the team. His boss wasnt speaking to him. This would have had a huge effect in his confidence. Hamilton was the darling of the team and was on speaking terms with the boss, who was almost like a surrogate father to Hamilton. I could go on and on, but you get the picture.

There was very little to separate the 2 drivers that year, so you really have to look at the minutest differences. At Hungary, Alonso scored pole but was demoted to 6th place (I think). This sort of thing rarely happens, where a driver is demoted because of a minor mishap between 2 team-mates. This should've been something for McLaren (internally) to deal with. Had Alonso not started in 6th place, he may have got an extra 2 points and won the championship that year.

Another point to make is that last year, in the middle of the season, a poll was taken and the current generation of F1 drivers voted Alonso as the best driver in F1. At the end of the year, another pole was taken and Alonso was voted as the best driver in 2010 by team principals.

In summary, everybody is entitled to their own opinions, but the people in the know seem to believe that Alonso is currently the best driver in F1.
 
J1nxy said:
Where have I said I don't rate him? go back and read my posts, I don't rate him as highly as Vettel or Alonso but put him in the same bracket as the likes of Button, Webber, Kubica and Rosberg. They are all exceptional drivers, they wouldn't be at the front of the F1 grid if they weren't, what I don't believe is that he is as good as Vettel or Alonso who both in my view deserve to win more than him.

I don't particularly like him and for me thats a good reason along with not being as good as Vettel or Alsono to deserve to win the championship.
Click to expand...

How is he not as good as Vettel and Alonso ? Hamilton showed when Alonso was at McLaren he was every bit as good as his team mate, if not better and Alonso ran off with his tail between his legs to Ferrari where he knew he wouldn't have any competition from his team mate, and even with a far inferior driver he has to get the team to tell him to move out of the way so he can get past.

Hamilton is one of the few racing drivers left in F1 he's one of the few that, like Schumacher in the past, can actually pass people without having to have a massive advantage over the car in front, take Abu Dabi last season, can anyone honestly say that Hamilton in Alonso's position behind Petrov would have just sat there like a lemon like alonso did? and then had the gaul to have a pop at Petrov who wasn't even defending the position as if his life depended on it.

All the greats from the past when presented with the **** or bust situation that Alonso found himself in that race would have jammed the bloody thing up the inside and either made the place up and won the championship or run off the track and been no worse off, instead Alonso just sat there and hoped that Vettel broke down.

Alonso is a fantastic driver, but i don't believe he's a good racer, i could never see Alonso taking a slower car, sticking it to the faster car in front and then holding the place like the best racers of the past and present have done.

Alonso reminds me of Jorge Lorenzo in Moto Gp, exceptionally fast on their own, but surround them with racers and they just bitch and moan constantly at how when more agressive racers do them that it's all terribly dangerous, It's motorsport FFS it's supposed to be dangerous if it wasn't they'd all be driving round in milk floats at 4 mph.
 
Spud21 said:
How is he not as good as Vettel and Alonso ? Hamilton showed when Alonso was at McLaren he was every bit as good as his team mate, if not better and Alonso ran off with his tail between his legs to Ferrari where he knew he wouldn't have any competition from his team mate, and even with a far inferior driver he has to get the team to tell him to move out of the way so he can get past.

Hamilton is one of the few racing drivers left in F1 he's one of the few that, like Schumacher in the past, can actually pass people without having to have a massive advantage over the car in front, take Abu Dabi last season, can anyone honestly say that Hamilton in Alonso's position behind Petrov would have just sat there like a lemon like alonso did? and then had the gaul to have a pop at Petrov who wasn't even defending the position as if his life depended on it.

All the greats from the past when presented with the **** or bust situation that Alonso found himself in that race would have jammed the bloody thing up the inside and either made the place up and won the championship or run off the track and been no worse off, instead Alonso just sat there and hoped that Vettel broke down.

Alonso is a fantastic driver, but i don't believe he's a good racer, i could never see Alonso taking a slower car, sticking it to the faster car in front and then holding the place like the best racers of the past and present have done.

Alonso reminds me of Jorge Lorenzo in Moto Gp, exceptionally fast on their own, but surround them with racers and they just bitch and moan constantly at how when more agressive racers do them that it's all terribly dangerous, It's motorsport FFS it's supposed to be dangerous if it wasn't they'd all be driving round in milk floats at 4 mph.
Click to expand...

Thats your opinion as I've said I have a DIFFERENT view.
 
Spud21 said:
...take Abu Dabi last season, can anyone honestly say that Hamilton in Alonso's position behind Petrov would have just sat there like a lemon like alonso did? and then had the gaul to have a pop at Petrov who wasn't even defending the position as if his life depended on it.

All the greats from the past when presented with the **** or bust situation that Alonso found himself in that race would have jammed the bloody thing up the inside and either made the place up and won the championship or run off the track and been no worse off, instead Alonso just sat there and hoped that Vettel broke down.
Click to expand...

If memory serves me correct, Alonso was doing everything he could to get past, however at Abu Dhabi, overtaking is nigh on impossible. Just as Alonso was stuck behind a Renault, Hamilton was also stuck behind a Renault. The nature of the track meant that unless your car was about 2-3s/lap faster than the car in front, you couldnt overtake. Webber, who was in the best car on the track, was also unable to overtake.

At some points, Alonso went off the track, in his attempts to get passed Petrov.

At present, Alonso is the best that F1 has to offer. This is my opinion, as well as the current generation of the drivers, as well as the current team principals in charge of F1 teams. Pretty much all the people in the know have voted Alonso as the best. Even Martin Brundle has this opinion and I like to think he knows a bit about F1. ;)
 
To be honest, Hamilton's overtaking skills are enough to make even people like Alonso's slightly pale in comparison. Doesn't mean Alonso isn't still a world class driver. He has other advantages over Hamilton.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom