Spanish Grand Prix 2013, Barcelona - Race 5/19

deuse · 13 May 2013 at 15:45

Skeeter said:
There is definately a problem with the de-laminations, but I'm yet to see anyone claim there are QC issues in the compounds. If there were then we would see cars having massive swings in performance on the same tyre compound over a weekend, which we haven't seen. There have been differences between teams, but the tyre behaviour within teams has remained consistent over a weekend.

As I said it was on the BBC and it's not hard to work out QC is crap.

"performance on the same tyre compound over a weekend, which we haven't seen"

Again it's already been said on this page..did you miss it? no you find it

Skeeter · 13 May 2013 at 15:49

Go a link the the BBC bit?

All I can find is Garry Anderson talking about the de-laminations, not an overall QC issue with the compounds themselves:

At each grand prix, 616 sets of dry-weather tyres are used. To date there have been four tread delamination failures from the 3,080 sets of tyres used in the first five races. That is not often enough for it to be an inherent design problem. I believe it is more to do with quality control.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22505695

Its 5 failures now. Was it only 2 failures that caused the farce that was Indianapolis 2005?

Guerrilla · 13 May 2013 at 16:04

Lotus not keen on possible tyre changes.

Can't blame them, they are in a decent position at the moment.

Skeeter · 13 May 2013 at 16:09

Understandable. But expect that view to change if they ever turn up to a race and struggle with tyres.

I agree with dannyjo, changing the compounds all over the shot is not the solution.

Janesy B · 13 May 2013 at 16:10

As much as I don't like the current situation I do not think it is fair to punish teams that have managed the tyres well like this.

Mr Men · 13 May 2013 at 16:25

Hopefully Ferrari have shown the rest that you can go racing and do an extra stop rather than plodding around to save stopping one more time. Wake up call for the rest of the grid maybe that you don't need to be conservative.

Kevin Clark · 13 May 2013 at 16:31

Skeeter said:
There is definately a problem with the de-laminations, but I'm yet to see anyone claim there are QC issues in the compounds. If there were then we would see cars having massive swings in performance on the same tyre compound over a weekend, which we haven't seen. There have been differences between teams, but the tyre behaviour within teams has remained consistent over a weekend.

Paul Hembury said on Sky at the weekend that they changed the design of the tyres and when they get cut by debris, instead of deflating, they're designed to de-laminate so it's not a QC issue. It's supposed to do that.

Bar · 13 May 2013 at 16:34

Surely if F1 is the pinnacle, it should be in all aspects i.e. the very pinnacle of tyre development? The best engines, the best cars, the best tyres, the best teams, the best drivers.

I would love to see a return of refuelling and tyres that allow a driver to race at 100% as opposed to the balance now being as much about race management as it is about driver / car ability.

Skeeter · 13 May 2013 at 16:42

Kevin Clark said:
Paul Hembury said on Sky at the weekend that they changed the design of the tyres and when they get cut by debris, instead of deflating, they're designed to de-laminate so it's not a QC issue. It's supposed to do that.

They have since said that not all the failures were caused by punctures. They have admitted they have no idea why Hamiltons failed in Bahrain.

Bar said:
I would love to see a return of refuelling and tyres that allow a driver to race at 100% as opposed to the balance now being as much about race management as it is about driver / car ability.

I think there is an element of rose tinted glasses when people remember recent refuelling races. There was almost no on track overtaking.

Bar · 13 May 2013 at 16:47

Skeeter said:
They have since said that not all the failures were caused by punctures. They have admitted they have no idea why Hamiltons failed in Bahrain.

I think there is an element of rose tinted glasses when people remember recent refuelling races. There was almost no on track overtaking.

Depending upon how back in time you go I would agree to varying degrees.

Of all the racing at the weekend I enjoyed the superb racing within the F2 much more than in the F1.

Skeeter · 13 May 2013 at 16:48

F2? Or GP2?

Bar · 13 May 2013 at 16:54

Sorry I meant GP2 - the last 10 laps were brilliant to watch.

Skeeter · 13 May 2013 at 16:57

Yep. Other than a dull patch in the middle of the Sprint race the GP2 was great.

~Mike~ · 13 May 2013 at 16:57

Skeeter said:
I think there is an element of rose tinted glasses when people remember recent refuelling races. There was almost no on track overtaking.

This.

GravyMonster · 13 May 2013 at 17:04

Bar said:
Surely if F1 is the pinnacle, it should be in all aspects i.e. the very pinnacle of tyre development? The best engines, the best cars, the best tyres, the best teams, the best drivers.

The problem is that Pirelli can make tyres which will last an entire race distance (probably even several race distances) however we had this back in ~2004 and it was incredibly dull.

The tyres have been intentionally engineered to only last ~15 laps. The problem is the drop off is too steep.

IMO For interesting strategical racing we need tyres which can do ~95% of the ultimate laptime for about 1/2 the race, or ~99% of the ultimate laptime for a third of the race.

I also think bringing back refuelling would help abate the situation given less weight at the start of the race, but that's never going to happen given that the sport is now doing all it can to pretend to be 'green'.

Reaper 392 · 13 May 2013 at 17:05

With the dry tyres being as fragile as they are I've just had a thought that could be a bit of a worry when we get to the wetter tracks. Each team is given three sets of full wet tyres for an entire GP weekend and four sets of inters. It is very possible that over the course of a weekend at somewhere like Spa or Silverstone or whatever that it will be wet and miserable all weekend. If the wet tyres degrade just as fast as the dry ones could there be a situation where people are retiring because they have run out of wet tyres?

I have no idea how durable the wet tyres are so i dont know if this is likely to be a problem. any info you can give on this would be greatly received

smr · 13 May 2013 at 17:11

Why can't Pirelli have in season testing, isn't Jaime Alguersuari driving for them off season? He's competent enough, let them test the rubber during the season, teh ban on the tyre manufacturer having testing in season is ridiculous.

Janesy B · 13 May 2013 at 17:18

Surely Pirelli gets data back from all the teams during the weekend?

Skeeter · 13 May 2013 at 17:18

Reaper 392 said:
With the dry tyres being as fragile as they are I've just had a thought that could be a bit of a worry when we get to the wetter tracks. Each team is given three sets of full wet tyres for an entire GP weekend and four sets of inters. It is very possible that over the course of a weekend at somewhere like Spa or Silverstone or whatever that it will be wet and miserable all weekend. If the wet tyres degrade just as fast as the dry ones could there be a situation where people are retiring because they have run out of wet tyres?

I have no idea how durable the wet tyres are so i dont know if this is likely to be a problem. any info you can give on this would be greatly received

The wet weather tyres are far more durable. And if the whole of Friday is wet they get an extra set (maybe 2) as well. They might also get extra if the whole of Saturday is wet too.

You won't see people retiring as they are our of tyres if its a wet weekend, but what you will see is no running in P1 or P2.

smr said:
Why can't Pirelli have in season testing, isn't Jaime Alguersuari driving for them off season? He's competent enough, let them test the rubber during the season, teh ban on the tyre manufacturer having testing in season is ridiculous.

Agreed. Something I also suggested in my tyre thread which bizarrely keeps getting beaten down by people saying the tyre rules are fine :confused:

Janesy B said:
Surely Pirelli gets data back from all the teams during the weekend?

Bit late though isn't it? And its not even like they can use the data for next year as the tyres keep changing year on year.

deuse · 13 May 2013 at 17:47

smr said:
Why can't Pirelli have in season testing, isn't Jaime Alguersuari driving for them off season? He's competent enough, let them test the rubber during the season, teh ban on the tyre manufacturer having testing in season is ridiculous.

They do. Every race. A few friends from the US have been emailing me about the tires, well they was taking the pee