Spanish Grand Prix 2013, Barcelona - Race 5/19

Skeeter said:
Built around the tyres, yes, but not the rules. Unless you think any team has deliberately designed their cars to go their fastest when driven at 8/10ths?

Keep the rubber, give the teams more sets. No need to change the car designs, but drivers can push in a race rather than driving to set times. 4 stops a race isn't a problem if they are driving flat out.
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Surely this is impossible - if a car is being driven at its fastest it would have to be going 10/10's ?

Even if an engine has 17500 rpm, if software etc is limiting it to 15000 , as long as the driver / gear box etc is using 15000 then its at 100% until the software is removed

(Unless Im just being stupid of course lol)



Personally when I read the story about RBR complaining it did come across as "boo hoo, we have now started to lose so we are going to throw toys out of the pram"

I cant see how anything is going to change in regards to better / real racing (at 100% capacity /speed) without a change in aero / mechanical downforce as well as more durable / larger quantities of tyres.

More tyres (and no restrictions on team budgets) isnt going happen with the world economies as they are.

The other thing to consider (and I honestly dont know the answer to this) is that I presume the FIA actually pay Pirelli x amount a year to provide the tyres (and not just through being able to be the sole F1 supplier, and merchandising etc that comes with that). How many more 1000's more tyres would have to be produced /season (given that Inter's /Wets wouldnt change, but Pirelli would have to cover an extra 10 ...15?...20? sets per car of each hard/ medium type of tyre for each race weekend (quick calc says the top 10 places could feasably use 8 sets, ie 5 extra, just in quali)

Therefore imo its a non starter, and the FIA would just go back to the "more durable" option from a few years ago
 
Skeeter said:
I think there is an element of rose tinted glasses when people remember recent refuelling races. There was almost no on track overtaking.
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For me it doesn't matter, at least race winners drove on the ragged edge and the fastest driver won.

Overtaking in F1 today is the equivalent of making football goals twice as big and having matches end 40-36, there might be more goals but they're boring and the keeper doesn't stand a chance. At least you could appreciate overtakes back in the day the majority now are DRS enabled bore fests.

All cars having the same fuel load is why F1 today is so lacking in variety when it comes to strategy.
 
It is funny how DM complains when RB are losing.

If they'd have won he'd have said sweet f.a of course. :D
 
He'd kind of shooting himself in the foot though surely. If Pirelli make any big changes to the tyres they are going to look like they're dancing to RBR's tune.
 
For me, the spectacle has all but gone, even qualifying on low tanks has become a none event.

The switch between working and not working manifests itself in such a way that we have a clear winner and loser.

We need the variation between cars to be much closer, driver and team need to stand a chance of making up the difference.
 
The tyre just needs to have a wider operating envelope, make the tyres slightly different in terms of speed, but not in terms of operating window.
 
If enough tires were provided. I wonder which strategy would win

Balls out pushing using the tires up and 5/6/7 stops

V

Cruising round but only making 2-3 stops.


How much slower are cars going than they are capable of when in a race?
 
mmj_uk said:
For me it doesn't matter, at least race winners drove on the ragged edge and the fastest driver won.

Overtaking in F1 today is the equivalent of making football goals twice as big and having matches end 40-36, there might be more goals but they're boring and the keeper doesn't stand a chance. At least you could appreciate overtakes back in the day the majority now are DRS enabled bore fests.

All cars having the same fuel load is why F1 today is so lacking in variety when it comes to strategy.
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You might have liked it, but an average of 1 overtake per driver each race was considered bad enough for the FIA to form the Overtaking Working Group to fix the problem, so I think you are in the minority.

Without DRS or KERS or Pirelli tyres banning refuelling alone doubled overtaking.
 
utajoker said:
If enough tires were provided. I wonder which strategy would win

Balls out pushing using the tires up and 5/6/7 stops

V

Cruising round but only making 2-3 stops.


How much slower are cars going than they are capable of when in a race?
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I was thinking this. It would only need to be 1 second a lap quicker to push rather than save tyres to make up enough time for 2 extra stops (working on a 30 second stop and a 60 lap race).
 
Its nothing new, he's voiced his opinion, as have many other people numerous times over the last 3 years.

His point about the failures is important too. If a tyre can fail after 2 laps that means it can fail on lap 2, when all the cars are bunched up, and cause a massive accident.
 
The biggest issue,and one that some people seem to be forgetting,is that the winner of the race is no longer the fastest driver in the fastest car, it is the driver who managed his tyres better in the car that was randomly best at looking after it's tyres on a particular track...

Yes there were boring periods when schumacer and Ferrari dominated but that was because he was the fastest and in the fastest car. I can live with that.

I just can't get on with following a motorsport where it is simply about tyre management.
 
Skeeter said:
If qualifying is the yard stick for speed, then the fastest car finished 6th and 12th.
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(As you well know) even when cars were going at their maximum all the time, 1 lap pace is completely separate to 60 lap pace.

Im not argueing against quali (even though I still much preferred the single whole hour format - even if nothing happened for 20 minutes), but quali has always been a means to an end rather than anything else. Its race pace that's all important and always should be
 
"Owww I can calculate tyre degradation on any track, on any gradient, on any tyre and at any speed with these formulas and lookups - so my spreadsheet is better than yawssssssss!!"
 
Merc says there is nothing wrong with the car but Lewis has said it's the way they treat the tire before the race.
If they get it right in the next race or two then watch out :)
 
Jono8 said:
The biggest issue,and one that some people seem to be forgetting,is that the winner of the race is no longer the fastest driver in the fastest car, it is the driver who managed his tyres better in the car that was randomly best at looking after it's tyres on a particular track...
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Ferrari have been performing well on every track so far, Alonso has won 2 races and a 2nd and suffered 2 problems otherwise he would have probably been on the podium in Malaysia and Bahrain as well. So I don't think it's all that random at all.

Not sure how you decide the fastest car though. Ferrari and Lotus look like they have the best race cars so far.
 
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