Spark, no oxygen?

Glaucus · 1 Jun 2006 at 19:02

William said:
A-Level chemistry says you need no oxygen.

Spark can be a glowing hot particle like metal flying off a angle grinder.

Or an electrostatic discharge like a sparkplug which needs a gas to travel across.

no you need oxygen in that case, The metal is glowing because its oxidizing (see that word) in the air.

I'm sure there some exceptions but most of the time yes you need oxygen for a spark a spark is basicly fire after all.

spark (FIRE/ELECTRICITY) Show phonetics
noun [C]
1 a very small bit of fire which flies out from something that is burning or which is made by rubbing two hard things together, or a flash of light made by electricity:
Sparks were flying out of the bonfire and blowing everywhere.
You can start a fire by rubbing two dry pieces of wood together until you produce a spark.

2 spark of anger/inspiration/life, etc. a very small amount of a particular emotion or quality in a person

aardvark · 1 Jun 2006 at 19:05

AcidHell2 said:
no you need oxygen in that case, The metal is glowing because its oxidizing (see that word) in the air.

I'm sure there some exceptions but most of the time yes you need oxygen for a spark a spark is basicly fire after all.

you don't need oxygen to make metal give off light - get it hot enough and it will glow in a vacuum, as will anything.

Glaucus · 1 Jun 2006 at 19:06

aardvark said:
you don't need oxygen to make metal give off light - get it hot enough and it will glow in a vacuum, as will anything.

but then thats just glowing metal and not a spark. A spark by deffintion in the english diictionery is as above.

Aod · 1 Jun 2006 at 19:08

but glowing bits of metal can be sparks too.

ever used an Angle Grinder/Arc Welder?

VeNT · 1 Jun 2006 at 19:09

AcidHell2 said:
but then thats just glowing metal and not a spark. A spark by deffintion in the english diictionery is as above.

a spark is just a small fleshet of heated (ie glowing hot) metal, it does not need to be burning.

William · 1 Jun 2006 at 19:09

AcidHell2 said:
no you need oxygen in that case, The metal is glowing because its oxidizing (see that word) in the air.

Yeah I see that word and you spelt it wrong and it is not oxidising, you tell me if you use an arc-welder on a lump of iron and you come out with rust.

Glaucus · 1 Jun 2006 at 19:09

Aod said:
but glowing bits of metal can be sparks too.

ever used an Angle Grinder/Arc Welder?

use bot lots, the reason a spark continues to glow as it flies the the air is due to oxidation. Requiring oxygen.. If you look at a spark after its landed its not steel any more its been oxidised.

An ark welder is electrical and thus a diffrent type of spark, which doesn't rtequire oxygen as it's electrical.

Another deffinition for a diffrent dictionery.

spark

noun (plural sparks)
Definition:

1. fiery particle: a small piece of a burning substance thrown off in combustion or produced in friction

2. electricity electric discharge: a quick bright discharge of electricity between two conductors

3. something that activates: a factor or device that sets off or acts as a stimulant, inspiration, or catalyst
a spark of interest

4. something capable of development: a latent trace of something capable of development
had a real spark of genius

aardvark · 1 Jun 2006 at 19:13

AcidHell2 said:
use bot lots, the reason a spark continues to glow as it flies the the air is due to oxidation. Requiring oxygen.. If you look at a spark after its landed its not steel any more its been oxidised.

not necessarily - a metal can glow without oxygen.

and again it gets down to the fact that spark has multiple definitions in any dictionary (see my post above)

William · 1 Jun 2006 at 19:17

Note that the dicitionary does not specify burning or combustion in oxygen either.

Glaucus · 1 Jun 2006 at 19:23

William said:
Note that the dicitionary does not specify burning or combustion in oxygen either.

you can't have burning or combustion without oxygen :rolleyes:

William · 1 Jun 2006 at 19:24

AcidHell2 said:
you can't have burning or combustion without oxygen

You can.

Glaucus · 1 Jun 2006 at 19:27

aardvark said:
and again it gets down to the fact that spark has multiple definitions in any dictionary (see my post above)

ok post a quote from the dictionery saying that is glowing metal, I've posted 2 quotes from the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary, Encarta World English Dictionary.

If you can find an english dictionary that says its not an incandescent particle that no you don't need oxygen.

aardvark · 1 Jun 2006 at 19:30

William said:
You can.

not without a source of oxygen (not necessarily the gas)

the process of 'burning' is the oxidation of a substance in the presence of oxygen (molecular or atomic).

other things might look like they are 'burning' - like the sun for example - but they are not actually burning.

i'm pretty sure thats right - of course a substance can oxidise without oxygen (oxidation is the loss of electrons) but even if this did occur i don't think you could call it 'burning'

William · 1 Jun 2006 at 19:32

Combustion is simply a violent reaction which produces heat and light, usually an oxidation. So I dunno you could have Methane and Chlorine, which is pretty violent.

VeNT · 1 Jun 2006 at 19:33

aardvark said:
not without a source of oxygen (not necessarily the gas)

the process of 'burning' is the oxidation of a substance in the presence of oxygen (molecular or atomic).

other things might look like they are 'burning' - like the sun for example - but they are not actually burning.

i'm pretty sure thats right - of course a substance can oxidise without oxygen (oxidation is the loss of electrons) but even if this did occur i don't think you could call it 'burning'

we're not talking about burning, we're talking about heated particals know as "sparks"
get yourself into space and start hitting bits of metal together or angle grind that space ship and see them fly!

aardvark · 1 Jun 2006 at 19:33

AcidHell2 said:
ok post a quote from the dictionery saying that is glowing metal, I've posted 2 quotes from the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary, Encarta World English Dictionary.

If you can find an english dictionary that says its not an incandescent particle that no you don't need oxygen.

the definition of incandescent is:
Emitting visible light as a result of being heated.

this has nothing to do with burning or being oxidised.

aardvark · 1 Jun 2006 at 19:35

William said:
Combustion is simply a violent reaction which produces heat and light, usually an oxidation. So I dunno you could have Methane and Chlorine, which is pretty violent.

methane may react with chlorine under certain conditions (usually light) but it will not burn.

William · 1 Jun 2006 at 19:38

aardvark said:
methane may react with chlorine under certain conditions (usually light) but it will not burn.

http://jchemed.chem.wisc.edu/JCeSoft/CCA/CCA3/MAIN/CLPR/PAGE1.HTM

Granted it needs to be lit in air first, but it is oxidising, read burning/combusting pretty well in chlorine.

You are talking about free radical substitution under UV light yes?

Edit: Just noticed you are a professional scientist, I am probably just digging myself a big grave here.

PhilthyPhil · 1 Jun 2006 at 19:44

SoSolid said:
There is no air in space, how do you think a rocket engine works?

A rocket engine is not used in space though, its used inside the earth's atmosphere to get the rocket into space :confused:

Energize · 1 Jun 2006 at 19:47

PhilthyPhil said:
A rocket engine is not used in space though, its used inside the earth's atmosphere to get the rocket into space

They need to use an engine to get back to earth though.