Spartak Moscow - Racist Tweets

Jimbeam3678 · 13 Jan 2018 at 22:58

How can anyone argue that this isn't racist and is banter

From a mod as well, this place is quite worrying at times.

Jokester · 13 Jan 2018 at 22:59

BaZ87 said:
Why am I assuming that using a racist term to describe 3 black people is racist? Surely that's a fair assumption to make, it's the opposite that needs some sort of evidence to prove.

And I agree that groups of friends can say terrible things to each other without meaning any harm but you'd have to be a monumental ****wit to think it's ok to share these things with the entire world unless of course you think calling black people chocolates is ok.

The assumption is that malice is intended (which is where racism would then come from).

Otherwise it’s just somebody naive making public something they’re happy to joke about on the training pitch.

BaZ87 · 13 Jan 2018 at 23:02

Jokester said:
The assumption is that malice is intended (which is where racism would then come from).

Otherwise it’s just somebody naive making public something they’re happy to joke about on the training pitch.

When you use such terms it's fair to assume such things and when you're happy to say such things openly, given the criticism your club and country has got for issues with racism, you're either a ****ing moron or openly racist and don't give a ****. I personally can't imagine anybody is that stupid which makes me assume the latter.

Jokester · 13 Jan 2018 at 23:06

Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity.

BaZ87 · 13 Jan 2018 at 23:11

Jokester said:
Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity.

I'm not somebody that looks for offence but you've got to be incredible stupid to do what this guy did unless of course malice was intended, although I'm not sure malice would be the right word in this situation. You often find with racists that they don't even recognise that they're being malicious or offensive with what they say. Their racist beliefs are so deep rooted that they think their views are the norm and completely ok to express in public.

Jokester · 13 Jan 2018 at 23:34

Moses said:
Start calling any black mates you have chocolate face and see how that goes down. Although it wouldn't exactly be a shock if you don't have any, tbh.

Not used to locker room banter then?

omnomnom · 13 Jan 2018 at 23:36

Jokester said:
Not used to locker room banter?

Shouldn’t be aired in public though. Plus Russia, so yeah.

I've played at a decent level and no sorry, no racist "banter" was used.

omnomnom · 13 Jan 2018 at 23:39

Jokester said:
Not used to locker room banter then?

Why do you keep mentioning "locker room banter" like that would make it ok ?

Start with this tripe in "locker room" and expect a slap.

BaZ87 · 13 Jan 2018 at 23:46

Whether racist comments or just general insults, lets not pretend that groups of friends don't say terrible things to each other with no harm being intended or taken. I know that if anybody heard the things me and my friends said to each other they'd think we hated each other. What Jokester's saying isn't that far fetched.

This issue I have is that this guy was so willing to say what he said so openly for the world to see.

Jokester · 13 Jan 2018 at 23:47

omnomnom said:
Why do you keep mentioning "locker room banter" like that would make it ok ?

Start with this tripe in "locker room" and expect a slap.

Because there’s a difference between mutual **** taking in private between good friends and just plain old abuse in public.

At best this was a major social faux pas by making it public by someone who was a bit stupid and naive, at worst it was a racist attack by someone who has a problem with people with black skin.

Jokester · 14 Jan 2018 at 00:03

BaZ87 said:
Whether racist comments or just general insults, lets not pretend that groups of friends don't say terrible things to each other with no harm being intended or taken. I know that if anybody heard the things me and my friends said to each other they'd think we hated each other.

I think this is an interesting point looking at the Aluko case and how she was treated by her team mates.

BaZ87 said:
This issue I have is that this guy was so willing to say what he said so openly for the world to see.

Indeed, regardless of the guys intent, it could not have happened in a worst place given that a lot of the audience of the post are bona fide racists who will quite happily shout abuse at the players purely because of their skin colour.

omnomnom · 14 Jan 2018 at 00:11

Jokester said:
Because there’s a difference between mutual **** taking in private between good friends and just plain old abuse in public.

At best this was a major social faux pas by making it public by someone who was a bit stupid and naive, at worst it was a racist attack by someone who has a problem with people with black skin.

**** taking in private is one thing, still wrong but it happens, this was spread by the clubs social media account. Ignorance isnt an excuse, its blatantly racist.

Good lord,

BaZ87 · 14 Jan 2018 at 00:17

omnomnom said:
**** taking in private is one thing, still wrong but it happens, this was spread by the clubs social media account. Ignorance isnt an excuse, its blatantly racist.

Good lord,

Ignorance doesn't make it ok but it also doesn't equal racism, though you'd have to be hugely ignorant in this incident to not understand what you were doing.

Jimbeam3678 · 14 Jan 2018 at 08:23

Moses said:
Start calling any black mates you have chocolate face and see how that goes down. Although it wouldn't exactly be a shock if you don't have any, tbh.

This raised a chuckle. Jokester I'm still holding the hope you're joking on this.

Jokester · 14 Jan 2018 at 08:32

Jimbeam3678 said:
This raised a chuckle. Jokester I'm still holding the hope you're joking on this.

You honestly believe it doesn’t happen?

omnomnom · 14 Jan 2018 at 08:39

Jokester said:
You honestly believe it doesn’t happen?

Oh im sure it happens, its still racist though.

My posts last night seem overly aggressive, alcohol, no food and no sleep will do that to you, apologies

Jimbeam3678 · 14 Jan 2018 at 08:51

Jokester said:
You honestly believe it doesn’t happen?

That doesn't make it correct though does it? Your first few posts seem to suggest that as long its in private its OK, I find that equally concerning to be quite honest.

Jokester · 14 Jan 2018 at 09:01

Jimbeam3678 said:
That doesn't make it correct though does it? Your first few posts seem to suggest that as long its in private its OK, I find that equally concerning to be quite honest.

I’m not talking about people that are being bullied. But there is a male mate culture where people mutually abuse each other as part of bonding, especially in these sorts of situations where they spend all day with each other and are also getting naked together. Inhibitions are both physically and mentally stripped away.

So there is a difference between what’s said behind closed doors within a tight nit group.

Trusty · 14 Jan 2018 at 09:27

Yeah, context is key

Jimbeam3678 · 14 Jan 2018 at 10:02

Jokester said:
I’m not talking about people that are being bullied. But there is a male mate culture where people mutually abuse each other as part of bonding, especially in these sorts of situations where they spend all day with each other and are also getting naked together. Inhibitions are both physically and mentally stripped away.

So there is a difference between what’s said behind closed doors within a tight nit group.

So we are clear in a “male mate bonding culture” you think it’s acceptable to make fun out of people based on their skin colour?

Taking it one step further if you were in this culture would you be comfortable with it?