Spec please: microphone for son's singing

SonicSW20 said:
The Behringer stuff is OK, but the build quality is poor and the preamps are not great. Its cheap though so what do you expect. The SM58 is a versatile microphone, relatively cheap and very rugged which makes it ideal for live vocal work, but for studio style vocal work a condenser will be a better choice.
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Thanks. I will have a think about all this. It's quite tricky to know where to pitch the outlay versus longevity and we're not totally clear where his singing and playing will lead in the next year or two.

At the very least, though, I've learned a decent amount from this thread and feel like I'm at least getting a field of possible options together.
 
strumpusplunket said:
So, just to clarify - with the Shure, would I need the audio interface just for him recording singing on the PC? Or could it just connect to the audio in on the onboard sound?
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With an adapter you could plug the mic into your onboard sound, my singer does this when we are jamming on Jamulus (this is where my 5 piece band can rehearse over the internet) however I would advise something like I mentioned above like the Behringer Q302USB. I use a Focusrite 18i8.
I have a brand new Q502USB still fully boxed that works perfectly that I'm getting rid of at some point. I used it for about a month but then realised I needed a lot more inputs.
Behringer used to be poor until the Germans took over a few years ago.
 
SexyGreyFox said:
With an adapter you could plug the mic into your onboard sound, my singer does this when we are jamming on Jamulus (this is where my 5 piece band can rehearse over the internet) however I would advise something like I mentioned above like the Behringer Q302USB. I use a Focusrite 18i8.
I have a brand new Q502USB still fully boxed that works perfectly that I'm getting rid of at some point. I used it for about a month but then realised I needed a lot more inputs.
Behringer used to be poor until the Germans took over a few years ago.
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Cheers.

We've actually found a Behringer microphone in the house! It's an Ultravoice XM8500, so it has an XLR output and it doesn't require phantom power.

We will probably make do with this for the time being and then think about upgrading the mic in the future if needs be, but what we need to figure out now is the best and most economcial way for him to get the mic connected to his PC.

The Behringer USB mixer would work for that, but what would be an ideal set-up would be something that allows him to connect his guitar and mic at the same time. I assume the Q302 could do this, but it doesn't look like it has a phono jack input for his guitar. Would we need another connector or adapter for that?

Also, we only have an XLR to jack cable for the mic, so I guess we need a proper XLR cable?
 
Sounds like what you want is a USB interface with min 2 channels.
Focusrite are one of the go-to options but they cost a lot (£200 for the two-channel option).
This is a more budget friendly option with two XLR-jack combo ports and two channels (so you can plug in via either the jack or the XLR option) https://www.gak.co.uk/en/presonus-audiobox-usb-96/908317.
If this is something he's really going to get into consider buying a 4 channel thing now and it will give a lot more future flexibility.

Akai used to do their EIE(io) and EIE(io) pro which gave 4 channels but some bad reviews dented sales (usually fuelled by people who don't understand basics on clean-installing drivers and not letting windows tamper with them). I'm not sure if you can still get them anymore. Mine works just fine on win7 and win10 with cubase. Only snag is the badly wired circuit on ALL units (no fix available) which means the intended switch option to monitor 1+2, 3+4 or all 4 channels doesn't work as intended and only allows 1+2, 1+2 or all 4. It's never really bothered me, but might matter to some.

As others have said, Shure SM58 is an excellent dynamic vocal mic (and will also do instruments at a push) and fine for live performing too. It remains one of the default industry mics. Just make sure you buy a genuine one from a legit retailer. There are so many fakes out there.
SM57 is the instrument equivalent. Both are typically £90-120 or thereabouts depending on switched/unswitched

A cheaper option is the AKG D5 which for home use is just as good and offers a slightly sweeter vocal tone. It can be a bit more noisy live, but still not bad, and worth the money for a beginner. Often £50-60ish

For really detailed recording you need condensing mics, with cradle shock-mount and pop shields. A good starter is the Rode NT-1A kit. You'll also want a quiet room as it will pick up everything.

As a general rule condensing mics usually require phantom power. Dynamic mics usually do not.
 
ik9000 said:
Sounds like what you want is a USB interface with min 2 channels.
Focusrite are one of the go-to options but they cost a lot (£200 for the two-channel option).
This is a more budget friendly option with two XLR-jack combo ports and two channels (so you can plug in via either the jack or the XLR option) https://www.gak.co.uk/en/presonus-audiobox-usb-96/908317.
If this is something he's really going to get into consider buying a 4 channel thing now and it will give a lot more future flexibility.

[...]

For really detailed recording you need condensing mics, with cradle shock-mount and pop shields. A good starter is the Rode NT-1A kit. You'll also want a quiet room as it will pick up everything.

As a general rule condensing mics usually require phantom power. Dynamic mics usually do not.
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Cheers for all the detail!

So, I couldn't just use a quarter-jack to RCA lead to go from his guitar amp to the Behringer mixer's inputs? A shame if not as that would be a nice budget-friendly option.

If, I will maybe have a look for a mixer wtih two XLR/jack inputs and USB out as you suggest.
 
SonicSW20 said:
Nowhere near, a Scarlett 2i2 3rd Gen is available for around £140 delivered.
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That's also pretty pricey, though. Are there any recommendations in the £50-60 price range like the Behringer USB mixer than could take a mic and guitar input (I am assumign the guitar input would come from the amp rather than the guitar itself - I really don't know anything about this kind of stuff...)
 
strumpusplunket said:
That's also pretty pricey, though. Are there any recommendations in the £50-60 price range like the Behringer USB mixer than could take a mic and guitar input (I am assumign the guitar input would come from the amp rather than the guitar itself - I really don't know anything about this kind of stuff...)
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Does his amplifier have a line output? Many amps do. Quick look at the spec of the Q502USB, you would not be able to plug a guitar directly into channels 2/3/4/5 without using a DI box, but you could use a line out from an amplifier.
 
SonicSW20 said:
Does his amplifier have a line output? Many amps do. Quick look at the spec of the Q502USB, you would not be able to plug a guitar directly into channels 2/3/4/5 without using a DI box, but you could use a line out from an amplifier.
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Yeah, it does. It looks like the inputs on the USB mixer are RCA, so could I just use a 1/4-jack to RCA lead from the amp line out to the 2/3/4 inputs on the mixer?
 
strumpusplunket said:
The Behringer USB mixer would work for that, but what would be an ideal set-up would be something that allows him to connect his guitar and mic at the same time. I assume the Q302 could do this, but it doesn't look like it has a phono jack input for his guitar. Would we need another connector or adapter for that?
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The Behringer Q502USB will definitely do it.
Up until a month ago I had a mic, guitar, keyboard and acoustic plugged into it.
If you lived in Stoke you could borrow it.
I now use a Focusrite 18i8 because I needed to get rid of some money, there's nothing wrong with the Q502USB.

q502usb.jpg
 
SonicSW20 said:
Quick look at the spec of the Q502USB, you would not be able to plug a guitar directly into channels 2/3/4/5 without using a DI box, but you could use a line out from an amplifier.
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I plugged both my acoustic and electric straight in and used plugins on the DAW software.
 
My answers are based on your post about "recording" as well as just guitar lessons and live work.

To record you want to feed a signal into the computer that preserves independent sound channels so you can edit them independently. This requires (for the most part) a USB interface that converts multi-channel instrument lines into it into a multi-channel digital stream for the recording software. The recording software generally only supports ONE interface at a time so the number of channels on the interface matters. Most interfaces have headphone jacks (if not jack out for monitors too) and the PC feedsback audio to this also for over-dubs and playback etc.

You could use a mixer before the interface to get more feeds into the thing, but you are blending the channels manually before the sound recording, so you cannot edit them independently in the software. This will be quite limiting for the recording and post-recording editing process. Obviously you can re-record things one-by-one after the event to try and get round this, but for singer-songwriter this can get tedious quite quickly. Multichannel Mixers are however useful for live work, even if just to control your stage monitoring, depending on the PA setup.

You can use an XLR to 1/4inch jack into interfaces - provided they are used for dynamic microphones that DO NOT require phantom power. It is advisable to get a proper XLR cable if you can.

For running guitar into the interface, acoustic guitars with an active preamp can be fed in directly provided the interface has a sensible impedance (and settings for guitar/instrument level signals as well as line-level). If it advertises as guitar and vocals chances are it will have this. DI boxes can help but are not essential.

For electric guitars and basses a DI is recommended, as is either an amp-sim or cab-sim, though a lot of recording software allow you to apply the latter within the editing and recording. If the interface has a guitar-level input then you could record without a DI. It is only a major issue if the unit does not offer this but only takes line-level /mic-level input signals. Cheap DIs are hit and miss. Before shelling for an expensive one see how the interface performs without it. You might be pleasantly surprised if you're able to run the signal out of the amp after the preamp stage. A lot of multiFX units will provide balanced outputs (line level outputs) so are doing the work of a DI already. No need to add another DI in this case. They will, these days, usually provide amp emulation too.

Some amps offer signal out for PA use, including amp modelling (either digital or analogue) to emulate not just the preamp stage but the poweramp signal. Award Session amps are very good in this record with their analogue Celestion G10 emulation. You used to be able to pick up this as a standalone pedal (albeit lacking the amp's spring reverb), which made for an easy portable gig set up when combined with a separate reverb pedal. These days digial has caught up and things like the Torpedo Cab sim, SansAmp DIs and even cheap Donner/Mooer mini pedals all give options, nevermind multiFX units and the like.

I would start with the interface and go from there.
 
strumpusplunket said:
Cheers for all the detail!

So, I couldn't just use a quarter-jack to RCA lead to go from his guitar amp to the Behringer mixer's inputs? A shame if not as that would be a nice budget-friendly option..
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Just seen this query. I can't say for definite without knowing all the specs, but my gut feel is no, the impedances probably won't match. I don't think this is a good idea. Those RCA connectors are to connect a cd player or the like, not the output from a guitar amp. Some amps have special speaker outputs to allow stereo amp configurations and these tend to come with warnings about what you connect to them as serious damage can result if you get it wrong.

Some portable amps do have RCA outputs of their own, in which case they would be fair game to connect RCA to RCA. Also something with a specific headphone out port could probably also be directed into the RCA connectors without too much risk, but I would resist plugging in a feed from "line level out" or "speaker output" etc without really understanding the impedances and checking nothing untoward will result.
 
ik9000 said:
Just seen this query. I can't say for definite without knowing all the specs, but my gut feel is no, the impedances probably won't match. I don't think this is a good idea. Those RCA connectors are to connect a cd player or the like, not the output from a guitar amp. Some amps have special speaker outputs to allow stereo amp configurations and these tend to come with warnings about what you connect to them as serious damage can result if you get it wrong.

Some portable amps do have RCA outputs of their own, in which case they would be fair game to connect RCA to RCA. Also something with a specific headphone out port could probably also be directed into the RCA connectors without too much risk, but I would resist plugging in a feed from "line level out" or "speaker output" etc without really understanding the impedances and checking nothing untoward will result.
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SexyGreyFox said:
What is the guitar amp he is using?
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Thanks. This is the sort of thing I really know nothing about!

He has a Ross Fame amp (it is pretty damn old, back from when I briefly thought I might switch from classical to electric guitar as a teenager!), and also a Marshall portable battery-powered one. Both do have headphone outputs (as well as the line-out on the Ross amp), but they are 1/4-jack outputs and it looks like the inputs on the Behringer amp above are RCA (unless I'm wrong about that? Only going by the pictures, tbh).

Given this, any ideas what would be the cheapest and most straightforward way of getting both his mic and guitar to input into his PC for his lessons and potentially for recording?
 
SexyGreyFox said:
I have worked in recording studios since 1974
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Then you should know that Line level inputs are not suitable for directly connecting to electric guitars or similar because the impedance of that input is too low.

I'm a qualified audio engineer with several years experience if we're resorting to top trumps :)

https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advice/q-what-are-correct-input-impedances-guitars-and-mics
An electric guitar ideally needs to work into an impedance of around 1MΩ or thereabouts. The line inputs of most sound consoles and mixers (I'm assuming that you had previously been plugging your guitar into a line input) generally have an impedance of about 10 to 50 kΩ — way too low to allow a guitar's pickups to work properly.
 
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