Spiderman Sony\Marvel "fallout"

[chroniclard]

The first 2 Tobey maguire ones were the pinnacle of Spiderman. Rest are all standard generic Marvel movies.

Get some ideas and stop rehashing the same old crap!

 

[Kyo]

Surely Sony can't make another round of Spiderman films - talk about flogging a dead horse.

At least by working with MCU allows the spiderman story to be intertwined with the other Marvel superheroes.

What was pointed out is that there was a clause in their contract that Sony could break away from the Spidey deal if it failed to make a Billion dollars. To date Spidey has made 1.1 so they are locked in which could mean they should have at least another film. Obviously the glaring problem is have they got the stomach to make it a success if Disney know they have one foot out the door.

Source

 

[kurosagi01]

The director for Far from home is also apparently under Sony contract so its not all doom and gloom...also Andy Serkis is directing Venom sequel so it's not entirely the end of the world.
Also the post credit of Far From Home can take it in multiple directions now, Spiderman doesn't necessarily need other Marvel superheroes to be relevant either.
Also as far as MCU timeline goes honestly it doesn't look all promising from phase 4 plan, they are back in the build up process of a big storyline which out of the phase 4 film lineup... only Doctor Strange seems to be the only one that will carry on the story.
Black Window is being reported as a character development movie after events of Civil War.
Thor Love and Thunder..don't have comment and think its silly.
The Eternals and Shang-chi are origin story films which will somehow tie in with their next big story, the Disney+ tv Shows who knows how those will link in or whether they will or not.
Fantastic 4 and other sequels like Guardians 3, Black Panther 2 and Captain Marvel will somehow have to link in with the next big story as-well.

As a business standpoint Sony definitely has the right to back off if Disney was trying to propose 50/50 deal, only the fans will be left disappointed but i'm sure they will all come-round eventually...

 

[IronSpider]

Marvel's main aim was to utilise Spidey in their own Universe and unfortunately that goal seems to have went out the window. I can see why Disney/Marvel wants more share of the profits. Before MCU Spidey, Sony has had so many reboots and made so many mistakes. So only getting 5% of the profits where Marvel did all the heavy lifting and made all the creative decisions is something which was eventually going to be a problem particularly with all the success. Its just down to sheer greed on the fat cats at the top.

They still took over 700m for each of Garfields Spiderman films, I personally really liked them. Sony don't get any of the merch money. Why should they give up 40% of the takings without hard negotiation.

Yes Holland has two more films in his contract but they can be small parts like in Civil war.

 

[cu3ed]

The director for Far from home is also apparently under Sony contract so its not all doom and gloom...also Andy Serkis is directing Venom sequel so it's not entirely the end of the world.
Also the post credit of Far From Home can take it in multiple directions now, Spiderman doesn't necessarily need other Marvel superheroes to be relevant either.
Also as far as MCU timeline goes honestly it doesn't look all promising from phase 4 plan, they are back in the build up process of a big storyline which out of the phase 4 film lineup... only Doctor Strange seems to be the only one that will carry on the story.
Black Window is being reported as a character development movie after events of Civil War.
Thor Love and Thunder..don't have comment and think its silly.
The Eternals and Shang-chi are origin story films which will somehow tie in with their next big story, the Disney+ tv Shows who knows how those will link in or whether they will or not.
Fantastic 4 and other sequels like Guardians 3, Black Panther 2 and Captain Marvel will somehow have to link in with the next big story as-well.

As a business standpoint Sony definitely has the right to back off if Disney was trying to propose 50/50 deal, only the fans will be left disappointed but i'm sure they will all come-round eventually...

Sony cant make films, or good films, Its as simple as that, does not matter how directs, they all leave saying how the Producers and Executives stick there nose in from some poll they made to target an age croup, demographic etc. Look it Tom Hardys outburst at the state of Venom after it was cut to pieces.
It not Marvel that will have a single problem with Phase 4 or any phases, they have there head screwed on and know hot to make and build characters. Feige understands the layout of things and where to take them. Sony has no one at all of that calibre. Hence dude terrible film one after the other.

 

[kurosagi01]

Sony cant make films, or good films, Its as simple as that, does not matter how directs, they all leave saying how the Producers and Executives stick there nose in from some poll they made to target an age croup, demographic etc. Look it Tom Hardys outburst at the state of Venom after it was cut to pieces.
It not Marvel that will have a single problem with Phase 4 or any phases, they have there head screwed on and know hot to make and build characters. Feige understands the layout of things and where to take them. Sony has no one at all of that calibre. Hence dude terrible film one after the other.

So you're saying a lot of these films were a flop? Think we are forgetting that Sony also owns a lot of film companies too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Pictures_Motion_Picture_Group
As for what happened to Venom no doubt getting chopped up and being turned into a rated 12 is down to the higher ups potentially thinking Venom can link up with MCU..which technically it can link up with MCU created Spiderman now.
I wouldn't say Into the spiderverse is a bad Spiderman film, I feel Sony now has better idea on what to do with the property now and learnt from the past and what MCU has done and what Into the spiderverse success brought to the table.
Disney/Marvel may know how to make and build characters and story which we have seen with End-game but what is technically the next step? They are betting all their money on another set of unheard of characters to keep the franchise alive with exception of F4 and X-Men.

 

[cu3ed]

So you're saying a lot of these films were a flop? Think we are forgetting that Sony also owns a lot of film companies too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Pictures_Motion_Picture_Group
As for what happened to Venom no doubt getting chopped up and being turned into a rated 12 is down to the higher ups potentially thinking Venom can link up with MCU..which technically it can link up with MCU created Spiderman now.
I wouldn't say Into the spiderverse is a bad Spiderman film, I feel Sony now has better idea on what to do with the property now and learnt from the past and what MCU has done and what Into the spiderverse success brought to the table.
Disney/Marvel may know how to make and build characters and story which we have seen with End-game but what is technically the next step? They are betting all their money on another set of unheard of characters to keep the franchise alive with exception of F4 and X-Men.

Nobody cared about Ironman, Thor, Guardians etc, ( who had even looked at Dr Strange outside the comics) there where not even close to public thought in terms of popularity. Seems they worked out pretty well.
Im willing to bet Sony will take back the Spiderman film, they will be starting from scratch to try and tie it back into there own mini universe ( What there is of it), and royalty balls it up.

 

[kurosagi01]

Nobody cared about Ironman, Thor, Guardians etc, ( who had even looked at Dr Strange outside the comics) there where not even close to public thought in terms of popularity. Seems they worked out pretty well.
Im willing to bet Sony will take back the Spiderman film, they will be starting from scratch to try and tie it back into there own mini universe ( What there is of it), and royalty balls it up.

Nope nobody cared about the movies apart from Marvel fans, Disney monopolised the Marvel franchise along with Star Wars which led to casual film goers to be even more interested in these franchise.
Sony owns the 2 Spiderman films produced by Marvel films.
Good story telling is what lead casual people into watching films and this will always be the winning formula, people that are fans of X franchise will watch it if the story also is good or go to see it to see how bad it is aswell.

 

[Meddling-Monk]

Nope nobody cared about the movies apart from Marvel fans, Disney monopolised the Marvel franchise along with Star Wars which led to casual film goers to be even more interested in these franchise.
Sony owns the 2 Spiderman films produced by Marvel films.
Good story telling is what lead casual people into watching films and this will always be the winning formula, people that are fans of X franchise will watch it if the story also is good or go to see it to see how bad it is aswell.

The danger is, that the previous Maguire Spider-Man films seemed to have as little meddling from the top unlike now (still some, but not as much) and had someone who took firm control of things in creation (and resisted some of the silly suggestions from up top). And that is what people are afraid of. Since we all saw what happened in the last Garfield one when top brass got their way and basically made a film with Spider-Man in name and person, but not really a Spider-Man film (being really a setup for Sinister Six). Right now, we don't really have someone like that in control for ALL of the Sony controlled stuff; just some heads in control of other stuff playing politics to get their own way.

If Sony are careful and smart, they will build every other Sinister Six film up and Venom films, until they can sort of stand on their own, THEN bring in Holland for Spider-Man.

Spoiler: Far From Home Spoiler

He's going to have been on the run after all after the ending of FfH.

But the rush to do their own thing and forcibly use something they shouldn't do (ala Amazing 2 and WB DCEU) will topple things once again. Some things can't be rushed, but some top brass don't understand that, or want things done a certain way for their own perks (Tsujihara!!! ). And fans have all too often lately seen that happen other than from Disney so far. And that's why so many are concerned.

 

[cheesyboy]

Sony with the big swinging dick since Venom made a tonne of money. Don't blame them for giving it a shot, tbh.

 

[Kyo]

Imo Sony is making the same mistakes DC made. This is why Marvel will always be ahead of the competition. The number of reboots alone in Batman, Superman and now Spidey tells you there are problems. They had a good thing going there and both Sony and Marvel/Disney are to blame for various reasons. So no winners in either camp.

 

[kurosagi01]

From what i've heard though the only one that lose out most would be Sony since Disney still has the rights to sell Spiderman merchandise so if Disney gets the 50/50 split deal with the films then Disney would on paper be earning a lot more than Sony at the end of the bargain.

 

[physichull]

Imo Sony is making the same mistakes DC made. This is why Marvel will always be ahead of the competition. The number of reboots alone in Batman, Superman and now Spidey tells you there are problems. They had a good thing going there and both Sony and Marvel/Disney are to blame for various reasons. So no winners in either camp.

Indeed.

The best thing Marvel have done as of late with the MCU is ensured continuity and linking all their characters together. They can probably go on ad infinitum like this adding different characters and story arcs provided it all links in together, but what frustrates me is the fragmentation as a result of this latest proposal.

After like 20 odd MCU movies, why should we all of a sudden jump ship and follow some weird parallel arc that in no way ties into the bigger picture? Artistically, creatively and from a storytellers point of view, none of this makes the remotest bit of sense.

 

[cheesyboy]

The best thing Marvel have done as of late with the MCU is ensured continuity and linking all their characters together.

Maybe if you're onboard. I've never watched an MCU movie, and the interlocking nature of the movies is a real turn-off for getting started - I suspect now that I'll just never watch any (unless I end up tuning in with my son). I've watched some of the recent DC movies, even though they're crap (BvS was so, so bad that I nearly didn't finish it), because the entry requirements are low.

 

[peterwalkley]

With great power comes great merchandising opportunity.

 

[Begbie]

Maybe if you're onboard. I've never watched an MCU movie, and the interlocking nature of the movies is a real turn-off for getting started - I suspect now that I'll just never watch any (unless I end up tuning in with my son). I've watched some of the recent DC movies, even though they're crap (BvS was so, so bad that I nearly didn't finish it), because the entry requirements are low.

See, the beauty of most of the marvel movies is that you can watch them randomly too. As most are fun adventure movies.

Plus it isn't hard, just start by release order.

 

[cheesyboy]

See, the beauty of most of the marvel movies is that you can watch them randomly too. As most are fun adventure movies.

Plus it isn't hard, just start by release order.

Yeah, but I don't fancy Iron Man at all

I've been tempted by GOTG. Might try that if it returns to Netflix or Prime. Probably not though

 

[kurosagi01]

The best thing Marvel have done as of late with the MCU is ensured continuity and linking all their characters together

That I agree on but at the same time all the superheroes can easily stand on their own universe with their own story and villains as proven in comics and not be linked together to one giant "endgame" finale story.
Of course they can all link together as there are source materials for it but that does not mean they can't go back to being in their own standalone universe.
Now that Endgame/infinity stone saga is "over", the MCU is now back to the drawing board to coming up with another long story or they could just allow all their upcoming films be standalone in itself and hope they will be successful.

At the end of the day this is all business money talk and Sony backed off purely because they were receiving the the worse deal if they sign with Disney to split the revenue on the film side.
They funded both Spiderman films and earned majority of the revenue for the films and Disney only got 5% but Disney also gets 100% of the merchandise sold.

 

[krooton]

Maybe if you're onboard. I've never watched an MCU movie, and the interlocking nature of the movies is a real turn-off for getting started - I suspect now that I'll just never watch any (unless I end up tuning in with my son). I've watched some of the recent DC movies, even though they're crap (BvS was so, so bad that I nearly didn't finish it), because the entry requirements are low.

Marvel realised that the coolest things they did in the comics was big multi-hero crossover arcs, and did a fantastic job of bringing that to the big screen.

The real class is making them all work on their own merits, but allowing wider knowledge of the universe and the other films add to the experience with cameos/easter eggs/other things that fanbois love.

All the MCU films ranged from average to amazing, and it was a hell of a trip!

 

[Shamikebab]

You can definitely watch most of the films without having seen others. It's only really the team up films or direct sequels that make seeing the previous one useful.